And we thought the Catholic Church was meant to be Christian

Shawady said:
In reality though, how far would most people go to boycott the church?
Would they refuse to get their child baptised or attend weddings and funerals in protest of the churche's approach to the child abuse scandals?
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Well I would, but it wouldnt be a far stretch for me as Im an atheist anyway and disagree with the CC for many other reasons than the current problems.

However - I do think you would find people not wanting to upset relations and/or friends by boycotting their church events - cant boycott John and Marys wedding, it wouldnt be fair on THEM - that type of thing.
 
Shawady said:
I aggree with this and as someone that had their children baptised I have mentioned in a previous thread I am undecided whether they make their communion/confirmation. I do feel a bit of a hypocrite as I do no attend church.

In reality though, how far would most people go to boycott the church?
Would they refuse to get their child baptised or attend weddings and funerals in protest of the churche's approach to the child abuse scandals?
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Can't understand this kind of question. Why would you get your child baptised if you don't want to? Why would you do it if you are not a practising member of the particular church?

By partaking in an event where someone else is having a religious ceremony doesn't mean you agree with the Roman Catholic Church, just that you're there in respect or celebration of an event. But getting your own child baptised is a different matter.

What do you think happens to those of us who didn't get married in a church or don't get our kids baptised. Fire and brimstone, that we wear horns? That's our kids are denied schooling ?
 
Bronte said:
Can't understand this kind of question. Why would you get your child baptised if you don't want to? Why would you do it if you are not a practising member of the particular church?

By partaking in an event where someone else is having a religious ceremony doesn't mean you agree with the Roman Catholic Church, just that you're there in respect or celebration of an event. But getting your own child baptised is a different matter.

What do you think happens to those of us who didn't get married in a church or don't get our kids baptised. Fire and brimstone, that we wear horns? That's our kids are denied schooling ?
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Bronte, you seem surprised that people that are not practicing RCs would get their child baptised. From my experience, the vast number of people I know that had their child baptised do not regularly attend mass. The reasons why they do vary from it is just the done thing, don't want to upset their own parents or need a baptism cert to get into school. For us it was prob a mixture of these reasons although our child will not be going to a RC run school as it turns out. I have not got a link, but I thought there were situations last year where non-nationals were denied access to RC schools because preference was given to RC children.

Regards partaking in an event in a RC church, I am just asking the question would some people consider to boycott the church altogether. Not because the are non-believers, but in protest at how the church covered up child abuse and moved priests around knowing they would re-offend.
 
Shawady said:
Not because the are non-believers, but in protest at how the church covered up child abuse and moved priests around knowing they would re-offend.
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Best thing people could do is continue to go to mass but leave after the gospel. This way they'll miss the all-important collection box as well as the preaching from the pulpit.
 
MANTO said:
Lets not pretend to be something we are not, i agree with Purple. pure emotion would take over and you would deal with the consequences afterwards. Anyone who thinks they would have a rational mind if they found out their child was being abused is either sadly mistaken or stupid.
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Again with emotional words, but in reality how many abusers get their commupence from the family of the abused? I'm not just talking church abuse, because more often than not abuse comes from within a family. It is understandable to say we would all kill this that and the other, but in reality most of us are not wired that way and that is why we tend to operate on the right side of the law.
 
Shawady said:
The reasons why they do vary from it is just the done thing, don't want to upset their own parents or need a baptism cert to get into school. For us it was prob a mixture of these reasons would re-offend.
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And don't you think that one ought to have a better reason than that to join an organisation? What would have happened if you didn't?

BTW what schools require a baptismal certificate from the Roman Catholic Church for entry?
 
Bronte said:
Can't understand this kind of question. Why would you get your child baptised if you don't want to? Why would you do it if you are not a practising member of the particular church?
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I don't have children but if I did I know that the older members of the family would be extremely upset if I didn't agree to the baptism. I'm not religious at all but would do this as I don't this it does any harm.
 
Bronte said:
BTW what schools require a baptismal certificate from the Roman Catholic Church for entry?
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Any school that is partially funded by the church.
It wouldnt be an issue in a big city as there would be other choices, but its a problem in other parts of the country. My boss for example, was not allowed to enrol his kids in the local school as they are not baptised.
 
It is quite amazing the amount of grown adults who comply with their parents wishes. Do people not make their own decisions and can they not go against their parents wishes when they are an adult.

Before making the decision to join, do people not ask what am I joining, why am I joining, to what end, what does this organisation stand for, can I live with that, do I believe in that?

Because if anyone looked into the actions, ethos and deeds of the Roman Catholic Church I don't know how any right thinking person would want to be part of it.
 
truthseeker said:
Any school that is partially funded by the church.
It wouldnt be an issue in a big city as there would be other choices, but its a problem in other parts of the country. My boss for example, was not allowed to enrol his kids in the local school as they are not baptised.
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Truthseeker would you know what percentage of schools this would be? Presumable state funded?

Where did your boss send the children to school? (Type of school)

Off the top of my head I have 3 relations who have children in different schools and they don't have baptismal certificates (not city schools, country schools).
 
Bronte said:
Before making the decision to join, do people not ask what am I joining, why am I joining, to what end, what does this organisation stand for, can I live with that, do I believe in that?
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That choice is not given to most as the church indoctrinates from babyhood - people are baptised before they are able to make a decision about what they are joining.

Now why they dont up and leave in adulthood is another question!
 
Bronte said:
Before making the decision to join, do people not ask what am I joining, why am I joining, to what end, what does this organisation stand for, can I live with that, do I believe in that?
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I think the problem is that most people join the church when they're kids and go to mass every Sunday. Only since recent events have occurred have people started asking the questions you have listed. Before that people just went with the flow. I imagine not being part of the church in rural areas might have been difficult in times past too.
 
Bronte said:
Truthseeker would you know what percentage of schools this would be? Presumable state funded?
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I wouldnt - but there is an interesting thread about it here somewhere - Ill have a look for it.

If you check out the enrollment policy for most schools that are state funded (and partially church funded) you will see that they go along the lines of :
RC children in the cachement area.
RC children of staff
RC children outside the cachement area....etc...

Its not that you CANT go to a state school thats partially funded by the church - just that the places will be offered to the RC kids first.

The bosses kids went to a different school that had places for them - a state school.

Theres an old thread that mentions it - I am looking for the more recent one:
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=14430
 
Bronte said:
And don't you think that one ought to have a better reason than that to join an organisation? What would have happened if you didn't?
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You are probably right but the fact is that this year thousands (probably tens of thousands) of children will either be baptised or make communion/confirmation and in many cases, their parents (a) do not attend mass (b) are disgusted by the child abuse and cover-up and (c) deep down may not even believe in the teachings of the church. Additionally many couples will choose to have a church wedding.
I have friends that chose to get married in a civil cermony because were not religious but when the children came along, had them baptised.
I don't know the answer. Maybe the church has had such a strong position in this country, people are not going to eliminate it from their lives overnight.

Regards the schools, I have no link but am sure there have been cases in parts of Dublin where, because of the pressure on school places, preferences would be given to RC children in RC schools. From memory I think a school from Blanchardstown was mentioned on news last year.
 
truthseeker said:
If you check out the enrollment policy for most schools that are state funded (and partially church funded) you will see that they go along the lines of :
RC children in the cachement area.
RC children of staff
RC children outside the cachement area....etc...
Click to expand...

I know the local COI school operates this way. Preference to COI children, then siblings, then children from other religious backgrounds in the cachment area. Some years there may be a couple of places open to children from other religions and others there are none. I assume RC schools would operate the same way, but there are obviously a lot more of them so probably a much better chance of getting a place.
 
truthseeker said:
Its not that you CANT go to a state school thats partially funded by the church - just that the places will be offered to the RC kids first.
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Hi Truth,

Have I got this right...the Catholic Church funds (even partially) primary schools? I would have thought they would be receiving money from the state in return for providing teaching services?
 
Go past any church on a Sunday and you will see people flocking around the priest like that couple in Father Ted. Its all "oh father you're great, you're gas etc" These people are the lifeblood of the church and without them it could not continue. These are the people who nhave to demand changes but they won't, they are happy with the church the way it is.
 
I had my daughter baptised for a mixture of reasons that Shawady mentions but I have to say that the Ryan and Murphy reports have made me think long and hard about my children having any to do with the Catholic church at all. When she was baptised, the school situation was a strong motivator but I was also considering becoming more of practising Catholic. Now I am leaning the other way entirely. The church as an organisation is nothing to me now. Rotten to the core. I feel sorry for the innocent priests who have had their life's work tainted by it - it reminds me of the butler in Remains of the Day - justifying his life of servitude in the face of the disgrace of his employer.
 
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