Alcohol Minimum Pricing

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Turn on RTE 1 and there's a big "chat" going on about this subject.
Personally, I think drink isn't dear at all, and would love if they did the same with pricing alcohol as they did with cigarettes. An awful lot of what's wrong in Irish society today has its roots in booze.
 
Booze is the symptom not the cause, which is embedded immaturity in Irish society .

The cost of bottle of wine in Spain is €1-€3 yet they don't have the problems with alcohol which Ireland does
 
ArthurMcB said:
Such as?
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I really am surprised you have to ask, so below are a few examples.
Road deaths, domestic violence, depression, anxiety, marriage breakdown, child neglect, elder abuse, money fraud, fighting and social disquiet on estates/towns/streets, public disorder, etc. That's for starters.

I agree too with Bocking 14's post. Irish people and drink do not make for good relationships. Martina Devlin (I think) has a piece in todays Irish Indo. It shows the concern we should all be having with regards to drink and drunken behaviour in Irish society today.
 
yea I caught the end of it today, that just proves that this issue is not going away and people are angry about it. Everytime people go to buy some beer or wine they will be reminded of the government introducing this . If the government was thinking they could sneak this in without people noticing well that has failed. Its actually gaining momentum rather losing it. Strangely people did not seem to realise the effect on prices until they saw it with their own eyes on Tuesday. Methinks the government will be forced into reducing the MUP price down from a euro back to 70 or 80c . The silence from government is deafening though they are still hoping that this goes away and people go back to focussing on corona (not the beer but the other corona)
 
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noproblem said:
Road deaths, domestic violence, depression, anxiety, marriage breakdown, child neglect, elder abuse, money fraud, fighting and social disquiet on estates/towns/streets, public disorder, etc. That's for starters.
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Alcohol tends to be used as an excuse by people for these behaviours in an attempt to absolve themselves of personal responsibility and in mitigation pleas in court - "my client was under the influence.." as if someone spiked their drink.

Same with vices in general, "I have an addiction" as if it's not their fault. I've yet to hear someone saying " I am weak/I couldn't resist the temptation/I was bad/wrong". They try to separate themselves from their own decisions and behaviour, as if they're extrinsic to them.
 
Maybe save the commentary on matters psychological to those qualified to comment and the same with recognizing the differences between physical and psychological dependency.
 
So to be clear, you are saying two things.

1. The list below are all things that you interpret as currently being wrongs in Irish society.

2. The root cause of all of these things is alcohol.

noproblem said:
Road deaths, domestic violence, depression, anxiety, marriage breakdown, child neglect, elder abuse, money fraud, fighting and social disquiet on estates/towns/streets, public disorder, etc. That's for starters.
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You really think that child neglect is currently a significant issue in Irish society? How? Where? It happens im sure but i dont think its the issue you suggest.

You really think that public disorder is currently a significant issue in Irish society? How? Where? For what cause? More pertinently, you believe it to be rooted in alcohol consumption?

Elder abuse? Really? A significant issue in Irish society at the moment. And rooted in booze? This is too sweeping and isnt really correct.

You have just listed things that can and do, unfortunately, happen in all societies all the time.

These are not currently, as you say, wrongs in Irish society. And, more importantly, you cannot and should not blame alcohol consumption for all of these things. Sure it may be a factor in some cases but its just lazy to make the statement that you made, below.
"An awful lot of what's wrong in Irish society today has its roots in booze"

I mean how does "money fraud", in all its ugly forms and guises, have its roots in alcohol?

Again, you just listed bad stuff and ascribed it all to booze.
 
mathepac said:
Maybe save the commentary on matters psychological to those qualified to comment and the same with recognizing the differences between physical and psychological dependency.
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It's an observation not an opinion.

Maybe save yourself the bother of replying to something obvious you don't want to acknowledge.
 
What's more, I take none of it back, but could add a lot more. You have an opinion, and obviously have never seen what I have. Long may that continue and I sincerely hope it does. However, for others it's different. There's hardly a family in this country that hasn't been affected by booze, seriously affected. That's my lot, i'm not here to derail the original post.
 
noproblem said:
obviously have never seen what I have
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You cant say this. I have no idea what you have seen. Nor you, me.

I dont need or expect you to take back your opinion. I just think its too broad and is patently lazy to ascribe loads of bad things that can happen ...to alcohol. But thats fine, its your opinion.

Lots of people have seen the ill effects of alcohol and it does cause damage. But alcohol alone doesnt crash the car or pick the fight.
 
Ok, good night.
 
Some of the posts here wouldn't be astray during Prohibition in the USA. Just to throw in a few words that alcohol never injured or killed anybody, but the abuse of alcohol did. The important words are "abuse of alcohol."

The vast amount of people who drink alcohol were never hurt nor never hurt anybody. These are the innocent people who are being hurt by the recent minimum pricing laws. Once again the majority are being dictated to by the minority. A bottle of cognac that cost €19.99 last week in Aldi was priced at €30.00 yesterday. That kind of price rise is punitive for everyone.

Nobody is denying that alcohol is another drug. We've seen that exposure to alcohol at a young age in other countries reduces alcohol abuse. We've never tried that in Ireland and (in my opinion) we have abuse of alcohol in spades. Perhaps it's about time that parents grasped the nettle and shared a bottle of wine occasionally with their teenagers? Alcohol is on a pedestal in Ireland, but who put it there?

As an observation I've noticed some conservative posters on this forum agreeing with me on the minimum pricing laws. From reading their other posts on financial advice etc I note all of them are well educated and deservedly financially sound. There is no sane reason for the price hikes that happened other than pandering to people who have taken to running the lives of good people.
 
Firstly, we need to shatter this myth that alcohol is a bad thing. Just because some people are lushes, why should everyone else suffer? Do we shut down or regulate steakhouses because some people are gluttons and end up morbidly obese?

I meet my Dad for a few pints once a week, perfectly healthy. Mrs Gekko and I share a bottle of wine on occasion and shoot the breeze, perfectly healthy. I meet my mates for a pint, perfectly healthy. Hell, sometimes we have pints after work and bond a bit, perfectly healthy.

Minimum pricing just makes it harder for people on lower incomes to do those things and makes their lives less enjoyable.

Find another way to deal with the alcos and the lushes. We’re throwing the baby out with the bathwater with this nonsense. And playing into the hands of Sinn Fein/IRA with what’s more electoral suicide. And to top it all off, the money goes to the retailers! You couldn’t make it up.

Other than a few loonies from whatever’s booze’s equivalent of ‘ASH’, who asked for this? Who wanted it?
 
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There is no safe level of alcohol consumption.

There is no safe level of alcohol, new study confirms

The international medical journal The Lancet published a study showing that any level of alcohol consumption, regardless of the amount, leads to loss of healthy life.
www.euro.who.int
 
There is no safe level of X. We could play that game all day. If its so unsafe ban it.
Except it isnt really unsafe either.

What does it actually mean?
The risks associated with low and moderate drinking are insignificant... there is an increase in some cancer risks but the risk is low to begin with.
And it may be beneficial for those with heart disease.

The risk does not warrant public health concern or MUP.

And besides you cant live forever.
 
If alcohol is so unsafe why where off-licences considered essential retail during the first/second waves of the Covid19 pandemic by our government and NPHET were we had the greatest number of deaths?
 
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