Alcohol Minimum Pricing
- Thread starter Majka.21
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Might eventually get round to brewing my own now...
There was a thread on it in the Depths - as a new poster you may not have access to it.
Parking the pros and cons - I am very much opposed to it ... to consider its side effects.
Will it lead to supermarkets discounting other products instead?
Day trips to Newry to fill the boot?
Parking the pros and cons - I am very much opposed to it ... to consider its side effects.
Will it lead to supermarkets discounting other products instead?
Day trips to Newry to fill the boot?
Steven Barrett
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As a recovering alcoholic said today on twitter, cost made him give up the drink. The cost to his family, friends and his integrity. The cost of a bottle didn't bother him in the slightest.
The new law is an absolute nonsense and the timing of it couldn't be worse, at a time of high inflation. a tray of beer will now cost €42 when you could get it for €20 before. It will hit lower earners harder but then, most of them aren't going to vote for FG/FF anyway.
I am for looser drinking laws, not tightening them. Be able to buy a beer in a cafe if you want. Be able to buy alcohol at whatever time you want. We had family up for dinner on Sunday and had to make two trips, one to do the food shopping and another to the off licence when it opened at 12:30. It in no way altered the amount of alcohol drunk that day, it just inconvenienced me.
The new law is an absolute nonsense and the timing of it couldn't be worse, at a time of high inflation. a tray of beer will now cost €42 when you could get it for €20 before. It will hit lower earners harder but then, most of them aren't going to vote for FG/FF anyway.
I am for looser drinking laws, not tightening them. Be able to buy a beer in a cafe if you want. Be able to buy alcohol at whatever time you want. We had family up for dinner on Sunday and had to make two trips, one to do the food shopping and another to the off licence when it opened at 12:30. It in no way altered the amount of alcohol drunk that day, it just inconvenienced me.
I'm happy enough to wait and see, any example of a scientifically supported non-populist political move is welcome. This clearly won't win votes, indeed probably will help SFF to win the next election, and won't generate revenue. But maybe it'll save a few lives.
Prices for cans of beer and cider have been clearly problematic - mainly due to an idiotic attempt to avoid alienating the dumb vote when applying general increases to other excise duties. Up to now I'd have suggested wandering into your local Aldi at around 12 to figure out why having cheap bottles of 2L strong cider is a problem. No problem at all for someone to drink themselves to death for a few euro a day.
Maybe it will drive people to different alcohol, drugs, to thieving, or to Newry (though a reminder to the distance challenged - not all of Ireland is within a short drive to Newry).
But "the" science says MUP may help.
E.G. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2011.03763.X
Prices for cans of beer and cider have been clearly problematic - mainly due to an idiotic attempt to avoid alienating the dumb vote when applying general increases to other excise duties. Up to now I'd have suggested wandering into your local Aldi at around 12 to figure out why having cheap bottles of 2L strong cider is a problem. No problem at all for someone to drink themselves to death for a few euro a day.
Maybe it will drive people to different alcohol, drugs, to thieving, or to Newry (though a reminder to the distance challenged - not all of Ireland is within a short drive to Newry).
But "the" science says MUP may help.
E.G. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2011.03763.X
@ashambles
Alcohol consumption dropped in Ireland over the same period British Colombia had MUP. I can't access the full text of the linked study to see how well it accounted for general reductions in alcohol consumption.
There is no evidence MUP lead to a reduction in alcohol related harms in BC since its introduction...
www.thejournal.ie
Alcohol consumption dropped in Ireland over the same period British Colombia had MUP. I can't access the full text of the linked study to see how well it accounted for general reductions in alcohol consumption.
There is no evidence MUP lead to a reduction in alcohol related harms in BC since its introduction...
- During the periods studied, in British Columbia, the number of deaths rose and fell, and hospitalisations rose every year
FactCheck: Is minimum unit alcohol pricing "proven" to work?
Health Promotion Minister Marcella Corcoran Kennedy made a big claim about the effectiveness of the government’s alcohol policy, this week. We tested it.
www.thejournal.ie
Ceist Beag
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All I can say to that Steven is that we have a very unusual sense of what things should cost if you honestly think €42 for 24 cans of beer is expensive. €20 for a slab or beer is just wrong imho. It makes an absolute joke of the Drink Sensibly campaign if you could then go out with 24 cans for just €20. It's the way of the world these days, buy a chicken for less than half the hourly minimum wage, 8 cans of beer for one hours wage, we've completely lost the run of value. Anyways, I digress, simply put I fully agree with the MUP.
It gives the policy makers the appearance of doing something, but costs nothing. I don't expect that it will make much difference to consumption or problem drinkers. The no purchase of alcohol before 10:30am (12:30pm on a Sunday) is a similar nonsense . . although perhaps it has saved countless lives and I'm just ignorant of the facts.
Studies of the impact of MUP in Scotland showed an 8% fall in alcohol sales with the fall greater in houses that were buying the most. That's a good thing in my view.
an interesting study here also
www.heraldscotland.com
an interesting study here also
How minimum alcohol pricing policy affects men and women differently
Minimum alcohol pricing targets men’s drinking habits more effectively than women’s, a new study has concluded.
www.heraldscotland.com
It's a disgrace. The reality is that it won't really impact the middle class or rich and will devastate many poor families with problem drinkers/alcoholics. There will also be a significant level of cross border shopping for alcohol, so you can be sure that when the prohibitionists point to a fall in alcohol consumption as a result of MUP that this will be totally overstating the efficacy of the policy.
I think it's a bad move...
* Those on low incomes will most likely sacrafice other things, to pay for booze, rather than reduce the quantity that they purchase.
* There's a serious risk that more expensive alcohol will encourage people to look for alternatives, with illegal drug sales quite likely to benefit. Younger people are of particular concern, as I believe that the can already buy the likes of cocaine easily, and at quite cheap prices.
* It'll probably increase crime, with addicts who can't afford to buy enough alcohol, turning to petty crime (shop lifting, house burglaries, muggings) to help fund their addiction.
* It'll push more custom across the boarder, so cost Ireland revenue and probably jobs.
* Manufacturers, Distributors and Vendors will all benefit from minimum pricing, as will the Government through increased tax on increased prices. None of the increase goes towards helping those with alcohol problems.
* Those on low incomes will most likely sacrafice other things, to pay for booze, rather than reduce the quantity that they purchase.
* There's a serious risk that more expensive alcohol will encourage people to look for alternatives, with illegal drug sales quite likely to benefit. Younger people are of particular concern, as I believe that the can already buy the likes of cocaine easily, and at quite cheap prices.
* It'll probably increase crime, with addicts who can't afford to buy enough alcohol, turning to petty crime (shop lifting, house burglaries, muggings) to help fund their addiction.
* It'll push more custom across the boarder, so cost Ireland revenue and probably jobs.
* Manufacturers, Distributors and Vendors will all benefit from minimum pricing, as will the Government through increased tax on increased prices. None of the increase goes towards helping those with alcohol problems.
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Please note that 50cl cans of beer start at 29 cent in German supermarkets.
If low price is the problem, causing harm to society, then German society should be collapsing under the weight of so much alcohol-fuelled harm. It's not.
Price isn't the problem, and price isn't the answer.
Within the past hour I've returned from my Dunnes Stores Off Licence. Outside of my presence, it was empty of life. There was even no reason to have the cash till there manned and it wasn't. No slabs of stout or lager were visible (there's no point as few are are going to pay €40+ for something they could buy for €23.00 last week).
Bottom Line (my opinion):- No need to employ fulltime Off Licence staff. The area where slabs were once on view will become just another pyramid for crisps or soft drinks or whatever.
. . . and my neighbour from eastern europe will still bring his white van to France a couple of times per year and load up with cheap wine which he has been doing for years anyway. I reckon many contributors here will be doing the same shortly.
. . . and nobody has grasped the nettle of Ireland's alcohol problems and how to resolve them. I'll provide my opinion tomorrow. Perhaps it needs a separate thread? Drink Aware Ireland certainly hasn't come up with the solution.
Bottom Line (my opinion):- No need to employ fulltime Off Licence staff. The area where slabs were once on view will become just another pyramid for crisps or soft drinks or whatever.
. . . and my neighbour from eastern europe will still bring his white van to France a couple of times per year and load up with cheap wine which he has been doing for years anyway. I reckon many contributors here will be doing the same shortly.
. . . and nobody has grasped the nettle of Ireland's alcohol problems and how to resolve them. I'll provide my opinion tomorrow. Perhaps it needs a separate thread? Drink Aware Ireland certainly hasn't come up with the solution.
Not for whoever was supplying own brand \ yellow pack beer and spirits to supermarkets here.
In the short term, there should be a bump in the profits of the major big brands, who won't have to offer so many discounts, and have seen most of their cheaper (on RRP) competitors disappear.
Depends on what happens with consumption going forwards though. Given that off licence associations were in favour of it, and no major drinks companies lodged serious objects, they seem to think they'll be alright from MUP.
@ashambles
Alcohol consumption dropped in Ireland over the same period British Colombia had MUP. I can't access the full text of the linked study to see how well it accounted for general reductions in alcohol consumption.
There is no evidence MUP lead to a reduction in alcohol related harms in BC since its introduction...
- During the periods studied, in British Columbia, the number of deaths rose and fell, and hospitalisations rose every year
FactCheck: Is minimum unit alcohol pricing "proven" to work?
Health Promotion Minister Marcella Corcoran Kennedy made a big claim about the effectiveness of the government’s alcohol policy, this week. We tested it.
Not sure how much weight I'd give to a journal.ie factcheck, but I'd be inclined to be dubious.
One bit of fact checking stood out as I couldn't see how the error mentioned would get past even a cursory peer review - so I fact checked their fact check.
From the journal.ie
"You might assume, then, as the authors do, that if a 1% change in prices was negatively associated with a 3.172% change in wholly alcohol-related deaths, then a 10% rise in prices is associated with (or would lead to) a 31.72% fall in wholly alcohol-related deaths."
The journal either didn't understand or misrepresented what they're reading because when I checked the source document it said that a 10% rise would lead to 31.72% fall 95% CI +/- 25.73% p <0.05. Possibly hyping on the of part of the report writers to try to mention that useless figure, but ignoring the CI in the "fact" check was worse. The journal used that to imply the report writers were making basic maths errors. But in reality the journal were making basic reading errors.
lukegriffen
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when they removed alcohol from supermarket loyalty points & vouchers i reduced the amount i bought, and this will probably reduce it further (i didn't drink much to begin with). but it will be interesting to see if there's a bigger selection of wine at 12%, which would suit me. Most wines seem to be 13 or 14%. the hospital stats would be most interesting, to see if there's any reduction in a&e admissions due to alcohol
And an increase in admissions due to other types of substance abuse.
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