Alcohol in every corner of the supermarket

truthseeker said:
I dont agree that overall alcohol is a problem in our society - there are a minority of people who do not drink in a responsible manner and a minority of people who have an alcohol abuse or addiction problem.
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Try telling that to people who work in A&E departments, police officers, victims of drunk drivers, domestic abuse cases........
 
Calico said:
Primetime did a feature on the subject on the availability of alcohol last night. Showed teenagers getting served in most places, talked about how alcohol was available for sale at every turn & how it is sometimes cheaper than water....
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The issue of some retailers breaking the law by selling alcohol to under age customers is a different one to the issue of stocking, availability and pricing of alcohol.

Calico said:
truthseeker said:
I dont agree that overall alcohol is a problem in our society - there are a minority of people who do not drink in a responsible manner and a minority of people who have an alcohol abuse or addiction problem.
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Try telling that to people who work in A&E departments, police officers, victims of drunk drivers, domestic abuse cases........
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Are you implying that these people are in the majority?!
 
ClubMan said:
The issue of some retailers breaking the law by selling alcohol to under age customers is a different one to the issue of stocking, availability and pricing of alcohol.
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It's part of the wider debate - the more availability the harder to enforce age-limits.
ClubMan said:
Are you implying that these people are in the majority?!
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I was referring to the posters statment that there was no social problems with the consumption of alcohol.
 
truthseeker said:
I dont agree that overall alcohol is a problem in our society - there are a minority of people who do not drink in a responsible manner and a minority of people who have an alcohol abuse or addiction problem.
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If you dont quote in full you can make dramatic differences to the meaning of what was originally said.
 
truthseeker said:
If you dont quote in full you can make dramatic differences to the meaning of what was originally said.
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I did quote you in full - see my previous post. We're arguing over semantics here. You clearly don't agree that acohol is a problem because the majority don't abuse it. I think you're completely wrong.
 
Calico said:
I did quote you in full - see my previous post. We're arguing over semantics here. You clearly don't agree that acohol is a problem because the majority don't abuse it. I think you're completely wrong.
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I do think that alcohol causes problems within society - but not an overall problem, overall would imply that the majority of people who drink have problems or cause problems because of alcohol - which is untrue.

Certainly the problems caused are significant and are have an impact on more people than just the drinker but the point I was making is that it is a minority of people who abuse the stuff and the marketing of it is not what dictates the behaviour of these people.
 
truthseeker said:
I do think that alcohol causes problems within society - but not an overall problem, overall would imply that the majority of people who drink have problems or cause problems because of alcohol - which is untrue.

Certainly the problems caused are significant and are have an impact on more people than just the drinker but the point I was making is that it is a minority of people who abuse the stuff and the marketing of it is not what dictates the behaviour of these people.
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Hmmm, if marketing makes no difference then I don't think drinks companies would waste their money on it. If the availability and cost makes no difference then what other factors explain the huge rise in binge-drinking etc? If there are other factors shouldn't we tackle these first before completely liberalising the sale of alcohol? I can't agree with your definition of what is and isn't a problem - I think it would be a pretty sad state if we only considered those things that affected the majority as a problem worthy of tackling. Who's to say you won't take a turn tonight and end up in an a&e department full of drunks?
 
Calico said:
If the availability and cost makes no difference then what other factors explain the huge rise in binge-drinking etc?
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A significant increase in the amount of disposable income and credit driven consumption in recent years would be one (two?) for example.
 
I dont disagree with you Calico that alcohol certainly causes problems and indeed the world would be a better place if people didnt damage themselves with an accident drunk that wouldnt have happened sober and thus filled up A&E departments unnecessarily.

I have never said (and in fact have clarified to you twice now but you dont seem to be taking it in) that only things that affect the majority are problem-worthy. I simply said, again, that OVERALL implies majority and the problems are with a minority - but that is NOT to say that alcohol does not cause problems and if you want to misread it as such then there is no more I can say to clarify it.

Binge drinking will happen no matter how the alcohol is marketed. As will alcoholism. This thread is aimed specifically at the notion of alcohol piled up in supermarket on every corner - all I am saying is that this, in my opinion, is not what causes problems with alcohol. If supermarkets were to ban the sale of alcohol outright and no advertising was done people will still use an off licence or pub to get it from. And the responsible drinkers will remain the responsible drinkers while the people with problems will still abuse it.

This country need a cultural shift in attitude to alcohol before the problems can truly be addressed.
 
Calico said:
Hmmm, if marketing makes no difference
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What truthseeker said was that the marketing of it does not dictate the behaviour of these people.

Which is obviously true.

Of course marketing makes a difference in a general sense - everyone has to sell their products.

The problem is with the people and it is a problem of attitude/responsibility - the problem is not the product per se.

Edit: crossed with Truthseeker
 
I have to give Calico some support here in that I very much believe that supermarkets/petrol stations and the like are responsible for making alcohol more accessible to underage drinkers. I believe (and it's only my personal opinion) that young people feel it is far easier to walk into a supermarket and purchase alcohol than it is to do so in an off-license or a pub. Sure they could get around this by getting others to buy it for them if supermarkets weren't an option but it certainly is easier to get their hands on it now than it used to be.
 
Ceist Beag said:
I have to give Calico some support here in that I very much believe that supermarkets/petrol stations and the like are responsible for making alcohol more accessible to underage drinkers. I believe (and it's only my personal opinion) that young people feel it is far easier to walk into a supermarket and purchase alcohol than it is to do so in an off-license or a pub. Sure they could get around this by getting others to buy it for them if supermarkets weren't an option but it certainly is easier to get their hands on it now than it used to be.
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Dont dispute that in the slightest, it probably is easier, but again - that is not a function of it being piled high on supermarket corners but a function of supermarket having lax rules about checking IDs.
 
I'm not saying that it's exactly difficult for young people to get their hands on alcohol these days - which needs addressing - but it certainly is my honest impression that it is more difficult now than when I was a teenager (80s)

I could drink in pubs and buy drink in off licences from the age of about 14 or 15 - most of my peers were the same and not once were we ever challenged about age/ID etc.
 
From talking to my younger cousins it seems much more difficult to get served underage these days.

My first time drinking in a nightclub was at 15 and I was never once asked for ID in any pubs or clubs. I don't think I looked over 18. Only one of my friends was ever refused from a pub/club so we all just went to another pub for one and went back to the first one through a back door. We had a lot less money than kids these days seem to but we still managed to go out every weekend on a tenner (and that included buying a band t-shirt in FM most weeks!).
 
Calico said:
I did quote you in full - see my previous post. We're arguing over semantics here. You clearly don't agree that acohol is a problem because the majority don't abuse it. I think you're completely wrong.
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Most here are not arguing that there isn't a drink problem in Irish culture, what I strongly disagree with are your solutions.

Ceist Beag said:
I have to give Calico some support here in that I very much believe that supermarkets/petrol stations and the like are responsible for making alcohol more accessible to underage drinkers.
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Well that's already illegal. How about we enforce the laws we already have, before we go penalizing all drinkers.
 
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