How so? You've only paid tax on it once. Just buy the pint out of the €350k you got tax free.
How so? You've only paid tax on it once. Just buy the pint out of the €350k you got tax free.Double taxation is bad enough. But if you buy a pint using your taxed inheritance money, its triple taxation.
Children's allowance is a great example; the State takes €200 a month from you in taxes and gives it back to you less their handling fee.
Yes, a good problem to have. I hope I have a massive inheritance tax bill at some stage in my life, maybe at many stages in my life. If ever I have a pay millions in CAT or inheritance I'll be a very happy man.Just putting it out there:
If anyone is so upset about the prospect of paying 33% tax on their inheritance please feel free to have mummy/daddy write me into their will - I'd gladly figure out how to deal with the tax cost of any windfall gains that might come my way.
If anyone is so upset about the prospect of paying 33% tax on their inheritance please feel free to have mummy/daddy write me into their will - I'd gladly figure out how to deal with the tax cost of any windfall gains that might come my way.
Most inherited or gifted going-concern businesses ultimately cease trading and are never subsequently sold. What happens the deferred tax bill then?
The deferred tax is paid.
So the now former business person is ruined.
This logic is so prevalent and I genuinely can’t understand how so many people buy into it.Fair enough, I think we do disagree. I think that if I make some incremental effort to earn an extra €100k, and I’m left with only €48k, I should be free to gift that money to my kids, or indeed to you, and it should be nobody’s business. Tax paid cash in my back pocket should be mine to do whatever I want with.
As an aside, it’s a joke that the State keeps the majority of someone’s incremental earnings. The highest rate of total income tax should be no more than 49%.
It’s bizarre to me that people keep equating traders in business to make a profit with private citizens receiving a gift.This logic is so prevalent and I genuinely can’t understand how so many people buy into it.
You are absolutely free to do whatever you want with it. You won’t pay a penny of tax on it if you decide to gift it to someone else.
The person receiving it is a different story. Whether it be the plumber fixing your leak or a relative doing nothing. They should be assessed for a form of a tax.
All money is taxed infinitely many times and almost without exception when it passes from one individual to another. Why gifts should be carved out as an exception to this is bizarre to me.
The hint was on the term taxed inheritanceHow so? You've only paid tax on it once. Just buy the pint out of the €350k you got tax free.
Fourth tax is the income tax that the publican pays.The hint was on the term taxed inheritance
First taxation on the income which provided the inheritance
Second taxation CAT
Third taxation vat + excise duty.
It’s not equating the two. It’s trying to peel back the emotional nonsense arguments people use to argue against inheritance tax. ‘It’s a double tax’ ‘it’s a tax on death’ ‘it’s an envy tax’ ‘I should be able to do whatever I want with my after tax money’It’s bizarre to me that people keep equating traders in business to make a profit with private citizens receiving a gift.
What about the UK that doesn’t tax gifts? What about Australia that doesn’t have inheritance tax at all?
If you're going to poke fun at my arguments Brendan whenever they disagree profoundly with yours, at least have the decency to do so in context.It could be the ruin of you!
It doesn’t ignore it in the same way having income tax, CGT or Corporation tax doesn’t ignore it. Theres an acknowledgement we need to raise a certain amount of money and we do so in the best way we can, without going too far and creating too much of a competitive disadvantage. Every country will do this their own way.Like a lot of socialist ideas, it also ignores the fact that capital can be mobile. People can exit the Irish tax system and pay zero.
If you're going to poke fun at my arguments Brendan whenever they disagree profoundly with yours, at least have the decency to do so in context.
We're not in a schoolyard here.
Most inherited or gifted going-concern businesses ultimately cease trading and are never subsequently sold. What happens the deferred tax bill then?
So the now former business person is ruined.
Charming.
I'm suggesting that your proposal, viz.
would ruin many people who inherit businesses that ultimately fail (ie most of them).
So your family is down over a million in CAT within 10 years, all because they suffered successive bereavements?
Would it not be more honest just to confiscate all private property and shoot everyone who objects?
Me, I think I'd take the money and pay the tax rather than be lumbered with someone else's business for 6 years.
If my inheritance of a business was conditional on the concurrent acceptance of personal liability for a Revenue debt which would require me earn €1.2m in order to afford to stump up repayments during my period of ownership, I'd certainly be doing thorough due diligence on the business before accepting the inheritance.Exactly how much context do you want? You have made it clear that most inherited businesses fail. That if you inherited a business you would sell it and pay the tax.
So I have drawn troubledman's attention to it to warn him that if he inherits a business, he might be ruined by it.
My point here is that what I said above is a valid opinion even if you disagree with it.Hi Tommy
I would do due diligence on any business - however, if it's a gift I wouldn't spend too much on professional fees.
If it were overvalued for CAT purposes I would just accept it, sell it, and pay the CAT.
If I got €2.335m and had to pay €660k CAT, I think I could live with it.
If I were to get a farm and I could sell off sites to pay down the CAT, I would certainly consider it.
Brendan
I’m not so sure about the difficulty of moving away. We’re talking about people with money here, let’s call a spade a spade. Lots of people with money retire abroad, or at least have a place abroad. Lots of kids study or work abroad in places where gifts aren’t heavily taxed, or aren’t taxed at all. It’s just a case of aligning the two. Not entirely straightforward, but not rocket science either.It doesn’t ignore it in the same way having income tax, CGT or Corporation tax doesn’t ignore it. Theres an acknowledgement we need to raise a certain amount of money and we do so in the best way we can, without going too far and creating too much of a competitive disadvantage. Every country will do this their own way.
It is an interesting point though. I can only speak for myself but my wife and I regularly consider moving abroad for a lower income tax and likely will live in Bermuda someday. As it stands we would both inherit 7 figure sums at some point between today and 30 years from now.
The idea we would leave Ireland (and our parents) so we can get €5m instead of €3.7m at some unknown future date is genuinely laughable to me.
The thing about CAT is it’s overwhelmingly people who will never ever pay it (old people) who seem to care about it. I often wonder do they get as worked up about the marginal income tax rate of the waiters they tip.
I have a group of fairly economically right wing friends in their 30s. We’d moan about income taxes pretty often (especially in bonus season). Inheritance tax has literally never been mentioned. And if anyone ever did mention it, they’d quickly told to stop being a scrounger and earn their own money.
After all, is there anything more socialist than complaining that you’re not getting enough of someone else’s hard earned money for doing nothing?
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