Aer Lingus upgrade to business class

[Leo]

And whom am I defending against?

So no public servant has ever flown business class paid for by the state or out of their own pocket? I think we all know that's a long way from the truth.

Regardless, people who work hard for a living are entitled to spend some of that income on a perk such as this now and again, including public servants. Them doing so has no bearing whatsoever on the other issues you mention, or it being right and proper for us all to demand efficiency from that public service.

 

[Blackrock1]

So no public servant has ever flown business class paid for by the state or out of their own pocket? I think we all know that's a long way from the truth.

Regardless, people who work hard for a living are entitled to spend some of that income on a perk such as this now and again, including public servants. Them doing so has no bearing whatsoever on the other issues you mention, or it being right and proper for us all to demand efficiency from that public service.

well said, also what was stolen from public servants?

 

[Sunny]

So no public servant has ever flown business class paid for by the state or out of their own pocket? I think we all know that's a long way from the truth.

Regardless, people who work hard for a living are entitled to spend some of that income on a perk such as this now and again, including public servants. Them doing so has no bearing whatsoever on the other issues you mention, or it being right and proper for us all to demand efficiency from that public service.

Indeed. Last time I flew business class to the States, I was sitting behind a certain notorious 'Public Servent' and his wife who retired on a six figure pension.....

My sister who is a teacher is driving a 2018 BMW that I can only dream of...

My sister in law who is a nurse is off to Asia for two weeks next month.....

My next door neighbour who is a civil servant is sitting in the pub every Friday evening at 4pm enjoying the benefits of 'flexi time'

I am disgusted at each and every one of them for how they spend their money......

 

[Leper]

1. I have no problem with anybody travelling business class provided they pay the entire fare. I have a problem if it is claimed as a tax avoidance item by anybody.
2. Public Servants in the line of duty should not be allowed to travel business class and have their extra fare taken up by the Irish taxpayer.
3. Sunny's teaching sister is entitled to drive any vehicle she wishes provided she paid for it.
4. Sunny's nurse sister-in-law is entitled to have her holiday anywhere provided she paid for it.
5. I don't know Sunny's next door neighbour. If he has worked up his/her time she is entitled to visit any pub provided he/she paid for the drink. Flexi Time was mainly introduced to get people to work earlier/later helping to alleviate rush-hour traffic.
6. Sunny's point of being "disgusted at each and every one of them for how they spend their money . . ." I have no opinion here, he is entitled to be disgusted if he so wishes.
7. Blackrock's point re what was stolen from Public Servants indicates that he has not been reading my posts or current issues re pay etc in the newspapers. For the record Public Servants/Civil Servants suffered huge loss of basic pay as a result of the last recession. Some had days holidays subtracted for their entitlement. Sick Leave entitlements were halved. Overtime was reduced. Unpaid longer working week was introduced. Pension payments were reduced. Do you want me to go on?

Please note the Public Servants I refer to in my defending posts are those at the lower end of pay. Apologies for not being more clear.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Public Servants in the line of duty should not be allowed to travel business class and have their extra fare taken up by the Irish taxpayer

On its own, the above point illustrates that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

The point of Business Class for business purposes is to enable the individual to function at a high level when he/she arrives.

I have no issue whatsoever with a public servant flying Business Class to (say) San Francisco. It enables him/her to arrive relatively fresh and to hit the ground running in terms of serving us to the best of his/her ability.

I would venture that the value of the work that the public servant is doing at his/her final destination is typically high relative to the cost of the flight. For example, if a Departmental Secretary is meeting Tim Cook tomorrow in Silicon Valley to discuss ways in which to rescue the ill-fated Apple data centre in Athenry, should we send him/her in Economy so he/she arrives like a zombie, or should we ensure that he/she has a flat-bed in Business Class so he/she can operate at close to 100%?

 

[Brendan Burgess]

I would venture that the value of the work that the public servant is doing at his/her final destination is typically high relative to the cost of the flight. For example, if a Departmental Secretary is meeting Tim Cook tomorrow in Silicon Valley to discuss ways in which to rescue the ill-fated Apple data centre in Athenry, should we send him/her in Economy so he arrives like a zombie, or should we ensure that he/she has a flat-bed in Business Class so he can operate at close to 100%?

That is really the point.

Business class is not just about having metal knives instead of plastic knives. It is not just about alcohol.

It's about not being squeezed in a tight seat for a long journey.

I wouldn't object to Business Class for senior public servants for long-haul flights. I would object to them though for trips to the UK or Brussels - if there is a business class on those flights anymore.

Brendan

 

[Gordon Gekko]

That is really the point.

Business class is not just about having metal knives instead of plastic knives. It is not just about alcohol.

It's about not being squeezed in a tight seat for a long journey.

I wouldn't object to Business Class for senior public servants for long-haul flights. I would object to them though for trips to the UK or Brussels - if there is a business class on those flights anymore.

Brendan

Most companies that I’ve ever been involved with have had some form of flight duration threshold, inside of which nobody is allowed to fly Business Class. The lack of Business Class within Europe makes that something of a moot point, but 6/7 hours has been the typical threshold (thus making it okay for, say, New York, but not okay for, say, Moscow).

I would have no issue with the same rules applying for public servants.

 

[arbitron]

As a public servant I wouldn't begrudge anyone paying for an upgrade. I don't see how it has anything to do with public service pay? People are entitled to spend their money on travel comforts whether they are princes or paupers. I also suspect that the people who pay exorbitant prices for premium seats are somewhat subsidising my cheap economy ticket...

I've never bought a business/first class ticket but I was upgraded once by chance and twice using miles. It is definitely worth it if you are on an important business trip as you can get a lot of work done and still be rested on arrival.

 

[Sunny]

Here I am on this forum regularly defending Public Servants and their wages, pensions and holidays. And whom am I defending against? - People who pay €400 for an upgrade on a one way flight through Aer Lingus, BA and anybody else who is prepared to pamper their luxurious travel wants. I am on a hiding to nothing, perhaps the Public Servant gets defended and what a victory? - The guys I defend the PS against are on flights paying an extra €400 for more space for their tired feet, "free" whiskey and metal cutlery instead of plastic who inform me that we have had too much for too long. And the rest of us are made feel somewhat guilty looking for something that was stolen to be refunded to us. Something wrong somewhere!

1. I have no problem with anybody travelling business class provided they pay the entire fare. I have a problem if it is claimed as a tax avoidance item by anybody.
2. Public Servants in the line of duty should not be allowed to travel business class and have their extra fare taken up by the Irish taxpayer.
3. Sunny's teaching sister is entitled to drive any vehicle she wishes provided she paid for it.
4. Sunny's nurse sister-in-law is entitled to have her holiday anywhere provided she paid for it.
5. I don't know Sunny's next door neighbour. If he has worked up his/her time she is entitled to visit any pub provided he/she paid for the drink. Flexi Time was mainly introduced to get people to work earlier/later helping to alleviate rush-hour traffic.
6. Sunny's point of being "disgusted at each and every one of them for how they spend their money . . ." I have no opinion here, he is entitled to be disgusted if he so wishes.
7. Blackrock's point re what was stolen from Public Servants indicates that he has not been reading my posts or current issues re pay etc in the newspapers. For the record Public Servants/Civil Servants suffered huge loss of basic pay as a result of the last recession. Some had days holidays subtracted for their entitlement. Sick Leave entitlements were halved. Overtime was reduced. Unpaid longer working week was introduced. Pension payments were reduced. Do you want me to go on?

Please note the Public Servants I refer to in my defending posts are those at the lower end of pay. Apologies for not being more clear.

Certainly sounds like you have an issue with people deciding to pay for business class if they so choose and can afford it. If they want to pay for it themselves, who are you to judge by comparing them to low paid public sector workers? All public/private sector workers should be allowed travel business on long flights paid for by the company/State. It's not a big deal. And if someone wants to pay for it themselves then fair play to them. Just like fair play to sister for driving around in the 2018 BMW. Or should I start a thread saying I am sick and tired of these overpaid underworked teachers going on about how hard life is when driving around in a 2018 BMW..In the private sector, blah blah blah.......

 

[tallpaul]

So an interesting discussion on the pros and cons of paying for an upgrade for a business class flight on Aer Lingus ends up (yet again) on a debate on the public v private sector!! Way to derail a good thread Leper...

 

[Leo]

7. Blackrock's point re what was stolen from Public Servants indicates that he has not been reading my posts or current issues re pay etc in the newspapers. For the record Public Servants/Civil Servants suffered huge loss of basic pay as a result of the last recession. Some had days holidays subtracted for their entitlement. Sick Leave entitlements were halved. Overtime was reduced. Unpaid longer working week was introduced. Pension payments were reduced. Do you want me to go on?

No, all that is completely off-topic and of no relevance here whatsoever.

 

[Leper]

No, all that is completely off-topic and of no relevance here whatsoever.

Agreed. I was only answering a question asked by Blackrock1.

 

[Leo]

Agreed. I was only answering a question asked by Blackrock1.

You brought it up in the first place!

 

[Purple]

You brought it up in the first place!

I think he was replying to me.

Here I am on this forum regularly defending Public Servants and their wages, pensions and holidays. And whom am I defending against? - People who pay €400 for an upgrade on a one way flight through Aer Lingus, BA and anybody else who is prepared to pamper their luxurious travel wants.

The upgrade costs £200 for world traveler and we only got it on the way over, not on the way back. We flew out Sunday to minimise the lost working days and had meetings in the following morning. Therefore arriving fresh was important. The return flight arrives in Dublin at around 9 in the morning so we were back in work by Thursday at 10.30 having spend two and a half working days there.
That was repeated two to three times a year. At that stage I was also taking 60-80 work related flights a year within Europe. Most of them out and back the same day. They were always economy class. I kept the cost down that way. I'm not sure how any legitimate business costs constitute tax avoidance, even if they include business class flights.