Accountant Fees

rabbit said:
The accountant charges a four figure sum each year just to keep the accounts up to date + do any returns to the companies office. ... The poor accountant.
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rabbit said:
400 euro plus vat is 486 euro. How could a poor accountant survive if he / she only got that amount of money each and every year just to keep the accounts up to date + do any returns to the companies office for a non-trading company ?
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rabbit said:
...perhaps the accountant would charge double that if he / she had to answer a query once or twice during the year ? It would be only fair, double the work, double the fee.
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rabbit said:
Poor accountants should charge as much as they can get away with. After all, many people they deal with are "fools". ( your word , not mine ).
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rabbit said:
Course they are. Where else would you only get a four figure fee for dormant accounts.
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At this point I think a troll alert may be relevant. ;)

Rabbit, your opinion of the accountancy profession in Ireland is exhaustively documented in many many posts. I know that you feel it incumbent upon yourself to waken the populace to the devil incarnate that accountants represent. How I've hid my horns until now I have no idea. I know also that your opinion stems to not some small degree from an appalling experience of yours/someone you know well with accountants which was again documented back in posting history ( before you try hitting me with my own pitchfork I am agreeing with you. It was an appalling situation ). However as in every service out there one gets what one pays for. That may be good value or bad value and it is up to the individual to see if they are indeed getting the service they expect at a price that is acceptable and after that no more can be said or done. Chancers exist everywhere ( except government of course :D ) just go the Golden Pages. If one cannot get sufficient detail to form a proper judgment that the price represents fair value then go elsewhere.

Incidentally, on the subject of fees for dormant accounts, I have just invoiced a client for the following :-
- Statutory financial statements for a non-trading (mostly non-trading although there were 3 payments from bank and 2 receipts to bank )
- Abridged financial statements for CRO
- B1 for CRO and submission with accounts
- Minutes of statutory meetings
- CT1 for Revenue
The invoice was €305+VAT21.5%.
I guess I should pack my case and head off to the poor house now shouldn't I. :)
 
Graham_07 said:
Incidentally, on the subject of fees for dormant accounts, I have just invoiced a client for the following :-
- Statutory financial statements for a non-trading (mostly non-trading although there were 3 payments from bank and 2 receipts to bank )
- Abridged financial statements for CRO
- B1 for CRO and submission with accounts
- Minutes of statutory meetings
- CT1 for Revenue
The invoice was €305+VAT21.5%.
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Good value for money in fairness...I have in decades of dealing with accountants and having many friends / relatives / buddies dealing with accountants - never heard of such low fees.

Graham_07 said:
However as in every service out there one gets what one pays for.
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Are you not contradicting yourself here...
 
Good value for money in fairness...I have in decades of dealing with accountants and having many friends / relatives / buddies dealing with accountants - never heard of such low fees.
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Maybe that the 2009 (recession) price.
 
leghorn said:
Maybe that the 2009 (recession) price.
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so you now think it more a case of what the market will bear rather than the price reflecting the quality of the service (" one gets what one pays for " )?
 
The work took a couple hours. Yes, he got what he paid for. Statutory financial statements and related work to professional standards, acceptable to Practice Review , CRO and Revenue. That price is not materially different to last number of years for same work either. Fair days pay for fair days work comes to mind.
 
rabbit said:
Are you not contradicting yourself here...
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No, what I mean is you get exactly what you pay for...in some cases what you get may be worth more than you paid...and in some cases less. I do not mean that pay less means less quality.
 
rabbit said:
Good value for money in fairness...I have in decades of dealing with accountants and having many friends / relatives / buddies dealing with accountants - never heard of such low fees.

..
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This should be put up in lights, it's the first time Rabbit has ever praised an accountant as far as I know. Maybe he's mellowing....
 
Bronte said:
This should be put up in lights, it's the first time Rabbit has ever praised an accountant as far as I know. Maybe he's mellowing....
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I , or any of many business friends I have chatted with, have ever heard of such value
"- Statutory financial statements for a non-trading (mostly non-trading although there were 3 payments from bank and 2 receipts to bank )
- Abridged financial statements for CRO
- B1 for CRO and submission with accounts
- Minutes of statutory meetings
- CT1 for Revenue
The invoice was €305+VAT21."

If the firm who provides that service really does that, I think they deserve a free "plug" here.

However, what about all the other accountants who charge more ? What about those who would charge a four figure sum ?
 
rabbit said:
I , or any of many business friends I have chatted with, have ever heard of such value
"- Statutory financial statements for a non-trading (mostly non-trading although there were 3 payments from bank and 2 receipts to bank )
- Abridged financial statements for CRO
- B1 for CRO and submission with accounts
- Minutes of statutory meetings
- CT1 for Revenue
The invoice was €305+VAT21."

If the firm who provides that service really does that, I think they deserve a free "plug" here.

However, what about all the other accountants who charge more ? What about those who would charge a four figure sum ?
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As said previously that fee was based, not so much on what was done but on how long it took to do. If one were to charge on a flat basis of what was done, the fee would probably have been higher but that would have been unfair to the client given the largely non-trading aspect. Furthermore, I have dealt with that client in various businesses over some 20 years. They are now mostly retired. I felt the fee fit the work and was fair to both the client and myself.
 
I would charge approx €390 incl VAT and including the €20 filing fee. So that is two accountants not charging 4 figure sums. Shop around - some accountants charges are outrageous.
 
One case I know of recently. An accountant charges 1300 euro simply to do a corporation tax computation / submission ( a non-trading limited company, no business, but it has some money on deposit....corporation tax has to be paid on the interest ) ...and the customer queries the charge of 1300 verbally to the accountant and he says he will look in to it , but a week later an invoice comes with no change. The customer emails the accountancy firm , but they do not reply...what next? Is there an accountancy body to monitor outrageous fees ?
 
rabbit said:
One case I know of recently. An accountant charges 1300 euro simply to do a corporation tax computation / submission ( a non-trading limited company, no business, but it has some money on deposit....corporation tax has to be paid on the interest ) ...and the customer queries the charge of 1300 verbally to the accountant and he says he will look in to it , but a week later an invoice comes with no change. The customer emails the accountancy firm , but they do not reply...what next? Is there an accountancy body to monitor outrageous fees ?
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Laissez faire
 
rabbit said:
One case I know of recently. An accountant charges 1300 euro simply to do a corporation tax computation / submission ( a non-trading limited company, no business, but it has some money on deposit....corporation tax has to be paid on the interest ) ...and the customer queries the charge of 1300 verbally to the accountant and he says he will look in to it , but a week later an invoice comes with no change. The customer emails the accountancy firm , but they do not reply...what next? Is there an accountancy body to monitor outrageous fees ?
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Unlike solicitors there are no "scale" fees as such in accountancy. Firms will have certain charges either per hour or for certain all inclusive work but it is up to each to set the fee structure. It is really up to the client to check this in advance. I find that hourly rates do not largely work on repeat work as some times you will gain or lose a few hours on a job and the provision of an "all in service" for an agreed yearly fee mostly works best. The client knows in advance the expected charge and has unlimited ( fair usage policy applies :) ) phone or personal call support for that.
 
Methinks best to let the pig come looking for the money.
 
As simplyjoe said business to business quotes are generally done before VAT.

You seem happy with the original quote of 450. You also seem to suggest that there was quite a bit of work in it, therefore I assume you are not averse to the idea of paying him a little more than the original quote.

Have you considered asking for a discount on the basis that the accountant did not tell you of the overrun until the job was done. Split the difference?
 
Accountant Fees for handling sole trader VAT and annual returns

Hi, Can someone advise...

I'm a sole trader, 40k-50k coming in. I supply the accountant with a spreadsheet breakdown of the annual ins and outs with VAT broken down and totalled (so he can't charge time for flicking through receipts)

Now, his annual return fee has crept up to 900 incl. vat, and recently he's asking 450 incl vat to do a year's vat return (something i would expect to be included in the annual return work!).

My query is what's the typical fee for doing a sole trader's accounts, esp. when the sole trader supplies him with a breakdown for the year's ins and outs.

Thanks a lot.
 
Re: Accountant Fees for handling sold trader VAT and annual returns

The fees are not excessive. Everyone always thinks that their job is really little and that other people should pay the fees necessary to keep the office up and running and pay an income to the accountant.

You are not a sold trader - you are a sole trader.

mf
 
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