A new treaty in Europe

Ancutza said:
. I think that deep, deep down in their souls the germans would definitely like to control Europe. Even the world if that was ok with everyone else. It's in their nature.
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If someone said this about 'The Blacks' or 'The Muslims' there'd be outcry. Haven't we learned that we can't make generalisations like this? Some Germans would tell you that there is no real notion of 'Germany' amongst even the Germans themselves, and if you ask them what it means to be German they will give you a variety of answers.
 
Who was it said "If you don't learn the lessons of history you will be condemned to repeat them?"
 
All credit to Third Reich theories, but could it be a bit more basic. If you were agreeing to bankroll your extended family wouldnt you like to have some idea as to how they are going to spend in the future?

I dont think this Euro uncertainty is to Germany's benefit or that they see it as their chance, given the choice I think they'd happily roll back the clock to before this mess started.
 
If someone said this about 'The Blacks' or 'The Muslims' there'd be outcry. Haven't we learned that we can't make generalisations like this? Some Germans would tell you that there is no real notion of 'Germany' amongst even the Germans themselves, and if you ask them what it means to be German they will give you a variety of answers.
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Okay. I apologise for not making myself clear. I'll try again (and probably really screw it up!) What I was trying to say is that the german psyche, as a whole, is preoccupied with expansion. Likewise the British, the French, the Japanese etc. It's just the way they are as a people. Whereas other peoples (like us for example) could be left with the neighbours garden gate left open for a considerable amount of time before we'd even think to mooch up to the boundary to see what's up.
 
The_Banker said:
One of the things Stalin was looking for at the WWII conference in Tehran in late Nov, early Dec 1943 was a committment from the western allies that they would open up a second front. In fact he was looking for it earlier but he got the commitment at that conference.
Roosevelt gave Stalin that commitment at the conference and it was one of the things he was happiest about going back to Russia.

While I suspect the western allies had the idea of spoiling the soviet plans of expansion in their minds when D-Day was planned it was a very poor second to defeating Nazi Germany. As momentum gathered after the allies broke out of Normandy the race was certainly on between the allies and the soviets to reach Berlin first and gain as much territory as possible.
Indeed there was an internal battle between Patton and Monty to see who could gain more territory but that was more an ego thing rather than any strife between the USA and the UK.

But the fact remains that Stalin was putting a lot of pressure on Roosevelt and Churchill to open up a second front.
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Stalin arrived at the Tehran conference just after crushing the Germans at Kursk (the biggest Tank Battle in History). He bullied and dominated Roosevelt, by then a very sick man, while Churchill concentrated on British interests in the Middle East and Mediterranean (despite what his officials advised). Stalin got just about everything he wanted; a chunk of Poland, a puppet government in Yugoslavia and permission to dominate Eastern Europe. Roosevelt was a weak man, mentally as well as physically, but that doesn’t excuse the sell-out of millions of people. If the British and Americans hadn’t opened a second front the whole of Europe would have been under Stalin’s boot. There’s no chance Churchill didn’t know that before he arrived in Tehran (after Kursk).
 
Purple said:
Stalin arrived at the Tehran conference just after crushing the Germans at Kursk (the biggest Tank Battle in History). He bullied and dominated Roosevelt, by then a very sick man, while Churchill concentrated on British interests in the Middle East and Mediterranean (despite what his officials advised). Stalin got just about everything he wanted; a chunk of Poland, a puppet government in Yugoslavia and permission to dominate Eastern Europe. Roosevelt was a weak man, mentally as well as physically, but that doesn’t excuse the sell-out of millions of people. If the British and Americans hadn’t opened a second front the whole of Europe would have been under Stalin’s boot. There’s no chance Churchill didn’t know that before he arrived in Tehran (after Kursk).
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I agree with all of that but why would Stalin want the western allies to invade Europe if his intention was to take over all of it?
 
I agree with all of that but why would Stalin want the western allies to invade Europe if his intention was to take over all of it?
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I don't think that Stalin gave two hoots if the western allies invaded or not. In fact it probably would have suited him much better if he was just let alone to get stuck into the germans on his own terms.
 
Ancutza said:
I don't think that Stalin gave two hoots if the western allies invaded or not. In fact it probably would have suited him much better if he was just let alone to get stuck into the germans on his own terms.
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He was insisting that they open a second front from late 1940. He didn't want his army weakened more than necessary by having to defeat Germany on it's own for the Americans and British to then invade and force his troops back.
 
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