A majority has registered for the Household Charge - has a majority paid?

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Brendan Burgess said:
But also because the very well organised campaign against it gave the impression that the vast majority were against it.
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Was it really a well organised campaign against or was that just the way it fell?
Brendan Burgess said:
Now that it is clear that the vast majority are not against paying it
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Is that a fact or an assumption? You don't feel that some paid it very begrudgingly? I know I met someone today who was against it but told me he paid. He said the thought of ever accumulating late fees would be just another monkey on his back (given that his financial position is precarious) - and that's the only reason he paid. I would wager that there are many more like him out there.

Brendan Burgess said:
it would be a good idea to incentivise the rest to pay it by a new deadline.
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I understand what your trying to achieve with that - but do you not see just how disingenuous that would be! (and I can say that as someone who would benefit from it IF I decided to pay).
 
Joe Higgins said on the news tonight that "the vast majority were against paying it"

This is clearly wrong. It seems that a majority have actually paid it.
It could be argued that a majority have not paid it.

But certainly it is incorrect to say "A vast majority are against it"

The opponents have put this forward to encourage everyone else to break the law.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Joe Higgins said on the news tonight that "the vast majority were against paying it"
This is clearly wrong. It seems that a majority have actually paid it.
It could be argued that a majority have not paid it.
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LINK.
Just to balance this up, it *might* be wrong but I don't think it could be assumed that it is clearly wrong.
 
Brendan I dont understand why you keep repeating that a vast majority have paid or are in favour, when it is quite clear from various reports that there is [broken link removed] a lot of confusion on the real figures, especially the base figure.

The 2011 census found just under two million houses in the State. [Of these] 129,000 are owned by local authorities and do not have to be registered. This leaves 1.86 million houses that must be registered
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If the above is true then it is only 43% who have registered/paid.

Do you have some kind of solid source for your continuing claim on a vast majority, because every figure Ive seen so far in various media would suggest 50% at best, but more likely to be a slight minority who have paid.
 
serotoninsid said:
LINK.
Just to balance this up, it *might* be wrong but I don't think it could be assumed that it is clearly wrong.
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Sid

Using the figures in your link

Socialist Party TD Joe Higgins has claimed the figure is 1.8 million.



Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan this afternoon said that in excess of 800,000 households had registered and paid the charge by the close of business yesterday.
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So the worst case is 1m out of 1.8m have not paid.

That is a majority. But it is not a vast majority. It is 55% have not paid.
 
It is worth pointing out that this household charge is only a token payment as a forerunner to a proper property tax next year. This is by all accounts going to be a lot more than €100.
It will be interesting how many will pay if they are expected to fork out €400-500 a year.
 
truthseeker said:
Brendan I dont understand why you keep repeating that a vast majority have paid or are in favour,
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This is what I have actually said when the latest figures were published

It seems that a majority have actually paid it.
It could be argued that a majority have not paid it.
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It is clear that the vast majority have not paid it. To me the vast majority would be at least 75%.

As of now all we can say for certain is either

A small majority have paid
or
A small majority have not paid.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Sid


That is a majority. But it is not a vast majority. It is 55% have not paid.
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Brendan, I agree but if it turns out that 51% of people paid, you can bet every governmnet TD will say "a majority of people paid the charge".
Whatever the finer details it is obvious that it is still a divisive issue.
I think the honest thing for the government to do is to decide what the criteria and cost for the property tax in 2013 is going to be.
 

If ability to pay is taken into account, the money will be getting collected off a smaller base.

Although I did not pay the household charge myself directly, I indirectly contributed towards it because after my FIL paid it he was unable to afford his groceries so I gave him money.

Im sure he is not the only person in the country who found himself in that position. He paid out of fear.

If ability to pay is taken into account, I would imagine the 450,000 or so on the Live Register will be granted some kind of exemption or waiver, no doubt the pensioners - traditionally a vocal group who already successfully got the government to u-turn on the issue of medical cards - will kick up, and there will be many other pleas made.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
That is a majority. But it is not a vast majority. It is 55% have not paid.
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Ok, no worries - so a majority of people have not paid if those figures are accurate - no problem with that.
Shawady said:
Brendan, I agree but if it turns out that 51% of people paid, you can bet every governmnet TD will say "a majority of people paid the charge". Whatever the finer details it is obvious that it is still a divisive issue.
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majority, vast majority - just the semantics of spin. Whatever way that pans out, it is proven beyond doubt that it is a divisive issue.
 
I have paid the tax but I don't support a property tax that exempts people because they live in social housing.
 
I heard Gerry Adams on the radio pontificating how he hadn't paid the charge - does he actually own a property in the State that would make him liable to the charge? I'm not aware of him having any problem with paying the council tax in the North, nor of his party campaigning against it. They're such a partitionist party, one policy for "down here" and another for Norn Iron.
 
Brendan


You clearly state in post 24 that certainly it is incorrect to say the vast majority are against it
and
Joe Higgins was clearly wrong in stating that the vast majority were aginst paying it.

How could make such statements , other than in the belief that because one has paid one must be in favour of the charge ?

I paid as did most of my friends -and we're all against it, often for different motives.
Maybe we're cowards, don't want any hassle or are just normal tax-paying drones who always pay. But we ARE against it- and paying it doesn't make us change our minds.
 
It appears that the majority have paid the charge.

We will know for sure after a few days - although maybe the antis will still be disputed.

If it turns out that the majority have paid, then the antis will have only one argument left "The majority have paid but the vast majority are against it"

I am against lots of things, but as a citizen of the country and as a democrat I accept the laws of the country. If I feel strongly enough about them, I try to change or improve them.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
If it turns out that the majority have paid, then the antis will have only one argument left "The majority have paid but the vast majority are against it"
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Semantics. Its proven beyond doubt to be a divisive issue.

Brendan Burgess said:
I am against lots of things, but as a citizen of the country and as a democrat I accept the laws of the country. If I feel strongly enough about them, I try to change or improve them.
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I can see your point of view - but don't share it. While democracy is the best system that we have, it is nevertheless flawed - or at least the irish application of it is flawed - with a lot of room for improvement.
Maybe it would be a more positive approach if peoples objections were handled systematically (as it appears that the rationale for not paying is very wide-ranging). Would that be democratic?
 
Am I correct that TDs MUST be tax compliant?
If so ,those TDs who didnt pay the household charge should be out of a job soon enough..
 
What we know is that approx 50% have paid the tax and 50% haven't.

What we don't know is (A) How many of the people that paid a modest €100 charge would go on and pay a more substanial property tax next also and (B) Are there people that refused to pay a flat charge on a matter of principle but would pay a means tested property tax?
 
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