starlite68
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the real fun will start in a few years when turkey...with its huge muslim population gets to join! i wonder will it still be laughably called the 'European Union'
the real fun will start in a few years when turkey...with its huge muslim population gets to join! i wonder will it still be laughably called the 'European Union'
What? Are you serious? Here's the list of Member States, please indicate which ones have unelected heads of state (bearing in mind that democratically elected representative bodies is one of the core requirements of membership to the EU).
Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czech Republic
Cyprus
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Netherlands
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
[FONT=Arial,Arial]United Kingdom
[/FONT]
The difference is that we can undo a decision of the Irish Supreme Court by way of Referendum, something we can't do with the ECJ. Should the ECJ continue to undermine wages by allowing imported workers to undercut local minimum wages (as they have already done) or interpret the Charter's Right to Dignity in a manner to legalise euthanasia or the decide availability of Services should trump any protocol prohibiting abortion or that our tax regime is in a distortion of competition . . then our politicians will say that their hand are tied . . and ask 'sure anyway didn't the people vote for it?'Yes we get dummy decisions from the courts, we get dummy ones here in the Supreme Court as you say (though that’s the Supreme Court making a decision not the ECJ). Yes they made the decision regarding the Polish workers (one for the employers), but they’ve also set ones for employees (such as a recent decision on Working Time). Again, courts are like that, some you win some you lose. It’s no different to our own Courts other than adding an avenue to appeal.
The difference is that we can undo a decision of the Irish Supreme Court by way of Referendum, something we can't do with the ECJ. Should the ECJ continue to undermine wages by allowing imported workers to undercut local minimum wages (as they have already done) or interpret the Charter's Right to Dignity in a manner to legalise euthanasia or the decide availability of Services should trump any protocol prohibiting abortion or that our tax regime is in a distortion of competition . . then our politicians will say that their hand are tied . . and ask 'sure anyway didn't the people vote for it?'
Of course that's not what I said. I said 'undermine wages'. The ECJ, with reference to the Charter which becomes legally binding after Lisbon, already allows foreign companies to import workers and pay less than local minimum wage. This puts local companies at a disadvantage and our minimum wage starts to look like an obstacle to job creation. Our Government has already said that they will tackle the minimum wage if it becomes an obstacle to employment. It's a vicious circle which puts the right to a profit ahead of the right to a decent wage.How do the ECJ undermine wages by allowing imported workers undercut local minimum wages? Its rubbish to suggest that the ECJ allows companies here to ignore national minimum wage legislation.
Of course that's not what I said. I said 'undermine wages'. The ECJ, with reference to the Charter which becomes legally binding after Lisbon, already allows foreign companies to import workers and pay less than local minimum wage. This puts local companies at a disadvantage and our minimum wage starts to look like an obstacle to job creation. Our Government has already said that they will tackle the minimum wage if it becomes an obstacle to employment. It's a vicious circle which puts the right to a profit ahead of the right to a decent wage.
The following EU States from the list above have unelected Heads of State:
Belgium
Denmark
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Spain
Sweden
United Kingdom
The fact that the EU capital is located in one of these States shows how much regard the EU has for democracy.
The difference is that we can undo a decision of the Irish Supreme Court by way of Referendum, something we can't do with the ECJ. Should the ECJ continue to undermine wages by allowing imported workers to undercut local minimum wages (as they have already done) or interpret the Charter's Right to Dignity in a manner to legalise euthanasia or the decide availability of Services should trump any protocol prohibiting abortion or that our tax regime is in a distortion of competition . . then our politicians will say that their hand are tied . . and ask 'sure anyway didn't the people vote for it?'
Indeed. I'm afraid you are wrong on all counts. I'm referring to the Rüffert case were the minimum was was indeed undercut and this was sanctioned by the ECJ.No it doesn't allow companies to import workers and pay them less. They must be paid the national minimum wage set in legislation or are entitled to the same benefits under any legally binding collective agreements. What precedent allows that? You might be referring to the Laval case in Sweden but you should read up on it again because that is not what the ECJ ruled.
you will find it wont be as long as you think! ...rapid expansion seems to be the new 'order of the day'Actually, Turkey still has a long way to go in terms of meeting the criteria on human rights and over legal issues.
However, how would a huge muslim population make any difference?
Indeed. I'm afraid you are wrong on all counts. I'm referring to the Rüffert case were the minimum was was indeed undercut and this was sanctioned by the ECJ.
Indeed. I'm afraid you are wrong on all counts. I'm referring to the Rüffert case were the minimum was was indeed undercut and this was sanctioned by the ECJ.
I believe Michael O'Leary and Declan Ganley will be debating Lisbon on Prime Time tonight. Should be entertaining........
Entertaining indeed. I like O'Leary, he has a brass neck and is usually a straight talker.I believe Michael O'Leary and Declan Ganley will be debating Lisbon on Prime Time tonight. Should be entertaining........
You hope!I doubt O'Leary could be arsed reading up on the Treaty so I expect him to bluster his way through. Ganley should hold the upper hand on detail.
Na, I doubt. I hope he has read up on it and we get a good debate.You hope!
Na, I doubt. I hope he has read up on it and we get a good debate.
It's the Yes campaign that avoids the detail . . Yes for Jobs . . Yes to Recovery . . Yes to Europe . . We Belong . . in reality there is nothing in the Treaty on which these things depend and it is disingenuous to suggest, as they are doing, that No to Lisbon means no to these things.
Then we have the likes of Padraig Walshe (IFA) telling Farmers to vote Yes because "we need access to the market 500m people", does he think that Farmers are stupid. And we have Pat Cox, former President of the European Parliament and 5/4 favorite to be next Irish EU Commissioner, telling us he is a non-political concerned citizen . . then trying to frighten people into a Yes with comments like, a No vote would be “wholly negative” and “We would be relegated to the second tier of a two-tier Europe along with Eurosceptic countries like Britain.” - The Yes campaign would sell their soul for a Yes vote.
Na, I doubt. I hope he has read up on it and we get a good debate.
It's the Yes campaign that avoids the detail . . Yes for Jobs . . Yes to Recovery . . Yes to Europe . . We Belong . . in reality there is nothing in the Treaty on which these things depend and it is disingenuous to suggest, as they are doing, that No to Lisbon means no to these things.
Then we have the likes of Padraig Walshe (IFA) telling Farmers to vote Yes because "we need access to the market 500m people", does he think that Farmers are stupid. And we have Pat Cox, former President of the European Parliament and 5/4 favorite to be next Irish EU Commissioner, telling us he is a non-political concerned citizen . . then trying to frighten people into a Yes with comments like, a No vote would be “wholly negative” and “We would be relegated to the second tier of a two-tier Europe along with Eurosceptic countries like Britain.” - The Yes campaign would sell their soul for a Yes vote.