What new international treaty is this?? Furthermore if it exists then why have we not been asked to vote on it too? Smoke and mirrors in my opinion.
With regard to the solemn declaration, I'll take your point. But the fact is that NONE of the so-called guarantees hold any water legally. For them to do so would mean them being written into the Lisbon Treaty as Starlite correctly points out.
Those happy for their lives to be governed by EU politicians and a European Court unaccountable to the Irish people
Those happy for their lives to be governed by EU politicians and a European Court unaccountable to the Irish people should of course - putting aside any nagging doubts in relation to the way in which the EU Constitution/Lisbon Treaty is being railroaded through across the EU and turning a blind eye to the No votes in France, Holland and last June's No in Ireland and what that says about our EU political masters view of the people - vote Yes.
Those opposed to a Federal EU model should or concerned with democratic principle should, IMHO, vote No.
People should not be bullied or frightened into voting Yes, the sky will not fall in if Lisbon is defeated.
the 'yes' campaign is purely based on fear and shoring-up the gravy train for failed eu policy makers everywhere.
As in favour as i am of ireland continuing to be at the heart of europe (believe it or not i do actually think so) the lisbon treaty is an inequitable way forward for us which will erode our sovereinty further and push us into second class status within the eu.
The eu has utterly no respect for democracy otherwise it would have respected our first vote. Equally our elected officials have no respect for us. They are going to sell our small island down the river and, when they've done that, they are going inflict nama on us to save their mates from the galway tent and all the greedy bankers at the expense of us,our kids and our grandkids. A spectacular double whammy which you are advocating. For shame!
Knock yourself out.Apologies in advance for being blunt . .
You're right, in a way; we have little sovereignty left at this stage. We no longer have control of our own currency or our interest rates, the vast majority of our laws are handed down from Europe and Tax is next. Under Lisbon, as under Nice, we further dilute our voting weight while, at the same time, ceding more areas to QMV(68 more under Lisbon). Would you not consider that a loss of sovereignty?You see the problem with that argument is that there is no new power given to Europe outside the stuff already agreed via previous referendums. So if we currently have sovereignty, how does that change when the text is the same as the stuff we already said yes to?
If you believe that the end point of the EU project is not a Federal State and that Lisbon is not another step in that direction then perhaps it is you who is blinkered.Those opposed to a Federal Europe is every one. Do you honestly think countries that fought long and bloody wars to be independent would suddenly just decide to hand over power to another dictatorship? Honestly? Is your own blinkered view so clouded?
....Tax is next.
Under Lisbon, as under Nice, we further dilute our voting weight while, at the same time, ceding more areas to QMV(68 more under Lisbon). Would you not consider that a loss of sovereignty? If you believe that the end point of the EU project is not a Federal State and that Lisbon is not another step in that direction then perhaps it is you who is blinkered.
I expect Lisbon to be carried. If so I hope the claims by the Yes camp are proved correct . . that Lisbon is a benign tidy-up exercise that will create jobs, bring the recovery, fix global warming, protect workers wages and conditions, fight crime, terrorism and inequality, amongst other things . . and of course, put Ireland at the heart of Europe . . all the while Ireland's tax and social policies escape the attention of the ECJ. I hope, but I doubt it.
What right do we have to be at the 'Heart of Europe' ?...put Ireland at the heart of Europe.
Come on, it's all opinion/interpretation, my view and yours.In your opinion or can you find the bit in the Treaty that states this?
We a signing up to an EU Charter of Rights which will supplant our Irish charter, our Constitution. The ECJ will interpret this new Charter (as it has already done in various cases e.g. allowing a Polish company to employ Polish workers in Germany at less than the German minimum wage). We have no mechanism/power to undo any spurious ECJ decisions, political promises notwithstanding. Don't think these things happen? In 1983 we provided for the right to life of the unborn in our Constitution, the dogs in the street knew what it meant - a ban on abortion; but in 1992 the Supreme Court decided it in fact meant abortions for all. That I have concerns about the ECJ and you don't might just mean that I'm not a free-thinking or progressive as you.What’s the ECJ got to do with this?
Ordinarily on forums yes, that would be the case. But not here, there’s text in place that’s pretty explicit and not open to interpretation and that relates to security, social policy, taxation and others remaining under individual member state control.Come on, it's all opinion/interpretation, my view and yours.
We a signing up to an EU Charter of Rights which will supplant our Irish charter, our Constitution. The ECJ will interpret this new Charter (as it has already done in various cases e.g. allowing a Polish company to employ Polish workers in Germany at less than the German minimum wage). We have no mechanism/power to undo any spurious ECJ decisions, political promises notwithstanding. Don't think these things happen? In 1983 we provided for the right to life of the unborn in our Constitution, the dogs in the street knew what it meant - a ban on abortion; but in 1992 the Supreme Court decided it in fact meant abortions for all. That I have concerns about the ECJ and you don't might just mean that I'm not a free-thinking or progressive as you.
People conveniently forget that most of our EU partners are only a generation or less removed from dictatorship
...
They don't value democracy as much as they should.
We should be championing democracy not eroding it. People conveniently forget that most of our EU partners are only a generation or less removed from dictatorship and a lot of them still have unelected heads of State. They don't value democracy as much as they should.
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