58, Early retirement - multiple questions

tk_maj

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Our family came to Ireland in 1999. We are originally from outside of EU but from 2006 have Irish citizenship. Our second child was born in Ireland, we consider Ireland as a home country and plan to remain here. We do not have any assets / pensions outside of Ireland.

I am the sole earner. My wife is a homemaker - looking after children and now grandchildren. In 2019 she underwent a surgery due to breast cancer and, touch wood, it was successful. Otherwise, we are in reasonably good health.

I have been with the same company for almost 25 years and plan earlier retirement after my 25th anniversary in September this year.
For the pension, I am considering an option with ARF+200K tax-free lump sum .

We have never used any Social Welfare except for Child Benefits / paying taxes and thus not very familiar with the system.
Would really appreciate any advice and feedback on our financial / pension situation (especially in relation to the state pension).

Personal details
Age: 58
Spouse's age: 53
Number and age of children: Two. First has own family and lives separately, second is 23 and lives with us (student, starting the last year of university this September)

Income and expenditure
Annual gross income from employment or profession: 74K
Annual gross income of spouse/partner: 0 (housewife)

Monthly take-home pay: €3,000 (after taxes, medical insurance deducted from salary and maxing out my pension / AVC )

Type of employment: Employee
Employer type: Multinational company

In general are you:
(a) spending more than you earn, or
(b) saving?

Saving

Summary of Assets and Liabilities
Family home value: €335,000
Mortgage on family home: €30,000
Net equity: €305,000

Cash: €25,000 (in current / deposit accounts - all joint accounts)
Defined Contribution pension fund: €910,000 - all in my name. No pension contributions for my wife (more details below).
Company shares: None
Buy to Let Property value: None
Buy to Let Mortgage: None

Total net assets: c. €1,350,000 includes €100K of other investments (details below) + €10K family car (no loan on it)

Family home mortgage information
Lender: AIB (automatically transferred from Ulster bank after its departure from Irish market)
Interest rate: 5.1%

Type of interest rate: tracker, variable, fixed.
If fixed, what is the term remaining of the fixed rate?
If tracker, what is the margin e.g. ECB + 1%:
Tracker, ECB + 0.85%

Remaining term: 6 years ( will be shorter due to regular over-payments while with Ulster bank)
Monthly repayment: €370

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc
No other loans
Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month? Pay in full
If not, what is the balance on your credit card? NA

Pension information
Value of pension fund: €910,000
State pension: At the end of August I will have 52 weeks x 25 years =1,300 PRSI contributions (class A)

Buy to let properties
No other properties

Other savings and investments:
Investment plan with Irish Life (Multi Asset portfolio 5 & 6). Started in 2016: Current value €44,000 (after mandatory 8-years' exit tax was applied earlier this year). Continue to invest monthly €150. This is a joint account.
ETFs with T212 (7 ETFs in 2 pies) Started about one year ago by transferring several lump sums and drip-feeding them weekly by €250. Current value around €33,000 (not adding new funds fro now). This account is in my name.
Alternative investments: Current value €35,000. Invested several years ago and just holing now - i.e. no trades or regular investments. This is account in my name.
Total value of these investments: c. €100K (rounding down due to volatility of the investments)

Other information which might be relevant
Life insurance: No

What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?
Apologies for the large number of questions!
I have tried to approach several financial advisors but found that, unfortunately, they cannot cover full range of questions. Some would have knowledge on certain topics but lack in other areas - e.g. would advise about investments but could not answer about state pension. I am also discussing these questions with Irish Life advisor and my company's pension provider - but would like to get a second opinion too.

Here are my questions grouped by topics:

1. State Pension:
  1. At the moment I have about 1300 PRSI contributions (class A) which is short of 2080 required for the full Contributory pension. I know that I can increase number of my contributions by taking more than €5,000 per annum from my ARF. This way I can add 8 more years of contributions (about 52x8=416 - class S). Is there any other way to increase the contributions? I do not have any gaps in my employment history in Ireland, so I presume I cannot buy additional years.
  2. Also, I know that I can postpone State Pension until I am 70 years old. Would I be able to continue to make PRSI contributions via ARF withdrawals in those years where I am between 66 and 70 years old?
  3. Would I have to register as a Jobseeker after I leave my current job? Are there any pro- / cons- in doing this (in respect of the PRSI contributions).
  4. Similarly, if in the future I take some job(s) / start small business - would it affect the class S contributions?
  5. My wife does not have any work-related PRSI contributions. However, she was receiving Child Benefits for more than 16 years. If I understand correctly, my wife can be added as a dependent adult to my pension (subject to means test)? What part of our assets would be taken into the test? I have specified joint accounts where applicable. Is it correct to assume that she would have a full allocation if these joint accounts were less than 20K in total? Would be ARF or any other investment accounts under my name taken into her means calculations?
2.Personal Pension:
  1. Is there any condition on the use of ARF after I take a lump sum? E.g. withdrawals from ARF must be started within 9 or 12 months after lump sum withdrawal. I know there will be a notional drawdown of 4% once I am 61, but is there some other mandatory requirement(s) before that age?
  2. Is there any good reason to take larger lump sum - i.e., in excess of tax-free 200K? I know there will be 20% tax on the additional amount. Would USC and PRSI apply to the excess too? If not, maybe it is better to take it now, to reduce USC and PRIS on future drawdowns. We do not plan any big purchases except for a car upgrade (current one is 10-years old). Currently our monthly spend is about 3K. It might be 30% bigger for the next couple of years if we take more travel (which we intend to do). However, our annual spend will likely to stay under 45-50K per annum. The lump sum + ARF withdrawals should cover it for 8 years and then state pension would kick in too.
3. Investment:
  1. Initially we planned to cover our living expenses by using money from the Irish Life plans. It should be enough for one year or so. Therefore, I did not plan to withdraw any money from the pension fund for another year thus allowing it to grow tax free. However, considering that ARF withdrawals would be required to maintain PRSI contributions, I wonder if we should use Irish Life for investments instead and put part of the lump sum (about 50K) into it? The performance of the Irish Life plans was not great so far. It did not show any real growth (after charges) until the last year and even now it is less than the growth in T212 account. Its only advantage is that taxes are deducted at source, and it has been done already earlier this year, so there will be no tax deductions for another 8 years.
  2. Is there any other comparable account(s) I can use for mid-term investments (5 years or so)? For example, I was considering Zurich plans but not sure if initial charges will eat up any gains for the first five years (as it was in case of Irish Life). T212 seems to be doing well, but I am cautious about adding more funds into account there as their money-guaranty is no very clear.
  3. Is there any way to continue with pension contributions as it seems to be the most tax efficient approach?
4. Insurance:
  1. Currently I have a family health insurance via my employer - Simply Connect Plus from Laya. What would be a good substitute for it as it now have to be paid in full?
  2. Would Life Insurance make any sense for our situation?
5. Other:
  1. Is there any other financial decision I must consider?

Please feel free to comment on all topics or some specific questions.
Thank you in advance for any suggestions!
 
After one week without any reply to my original post I understand that I was asking too many questions at once. Therefore I will try to be more specific this time and ask only two questions:

1. Once I retire later this year, can I take a tax free lump sum and leave the remainder in ARF untouched for 3 years (i.e. until I am 61)?

2. If I understand current rules correctly and based on my situation, I may withdraw up to €450K from my pension fund - i.e. 200K (tax-free)+250K (300K minus 20% tax). I am trying to figure out possible implications on a withdrawal in excess of tax-free amount.
From what I can see:
Pros:
  • Tax planning: Taking it now will only attract 20% income tax, while withdrawals form ARF will also include USC and PRSI
  • Subsequent mandatory 4% ARF withdrawals will result in smaller USC and PRSI tax deductions as the overall ARF size will be smaller
  • Access to capital: Larger amount of money will be available for immediate use
  • Investment flexibility: Having a larger lump sum can provide more flexibility to invest or manage the funds outside of the ARF structure. For example, can be used as bucket 1/2 in a 3-bucket strategy.
  • Future proof: Avoid possible adverse changes in tax rules – e.g. as discussed in this post from 2021 or this one from 2022
Cons:
  • Reduced retirement capital: Taking a larger lump sum reduces the overall balance remaining in the ARF, potentially limiting future growth and income from the fund.
  • Having a sizable lump sum upfront may increase the risk overspending or making impulsive financial decisions.
  • Reduced estate planning flexibility due to smaller fund.
I would greatly appreciate your opinions on these questions.
 
An observation that while you will get jobseekers benefit for 9 months or so your savings would disallow you from getting jobseekers benefit after that I would imagine. In terms of signing on for credits there are others that will be able to give excellent advice on that it is not in my expertise to comment.

The rules of your occupational pension scheme may also have an impact on your choices but I suppose my main point is that I strongly think you need professional advice here. You most likely can gain an insight into the PRSI contribution aspect of your situation here but the overwhelming tone of your post suggests you would benefit from seeking tax specialist advice.

I also think you might be overreaching in the amount of information you are requesting here health insurance on its own is a tricky one to navigate. HIA has a good comparison website but my own take is firstly to prioritise the area of health I think I will want. For me personally I want good high tech hospital access if necessary. I also consider inpatient excesses and am less concerned with day to day refunds. This can change based on age when my family was younger I needed good outpatient cover for things like O/T, physio and consultant fees. I personally also consider orthepaedic excesses as that may be relevant to me.

I think you might have more success in responses if you just ask about a one area at a time and I would reiterate that I do think you need to seek professional advice you are in the fortunate position of having accumulated a degree of personal wealth and it may be the best money you spend in the long term.
 
You made reference in your first post to your "company's pension".

For the purposes of the analysis below, I presume that your pension fund of €910,000 has been accumulated in your employer's occupational pension scheme (i.e., it is not a PRSA).

1. Once I retire later this year, can I take a tax free lump sum and leave the remainder in ARF untouched for 3 years (i.e. until I am 61)?

Your scheme leaving letter will present 3 options to you:

1. Leave the benefits in the scheme, or

2. Transfer your benefits to a new employer's scheme, to a Personal Retirement Bond, to a PRSA, or

3. Retire from the scheme immediately (as you are aged over 50).

2. If I understand current rules correctly and based on my situation, I may withdraw up to €450K from my pension fund - i.e. 200K (tax-free)+250K (300K minus 20% tax).

Your understanding is not correct.

Assuming you go for option 3 above ('Retire from the scheme immediately'), the rules as they relate to your situation are as follows (I've quoted from an answer I gave on another thread):


It is most likely that the 'ARF Option' I describe above will provide the highest lump sum to you.

Based on the info you have provided (€74k gross income), and the fact that you want an ARF, the 'Traditional Option' described in 1 is not a runner.

Your pension fund value is €910,000.

If you elect for the ARF option, you can take 25% of the €910,000 as a lump sum (i.e. €227,500).

The taxation of lump sums (i.e. the 25% only) is as follows:

- €200,000 tax free,
- The next €300k is taxed at 20%.

The taxation of your €227,500 is as follows:

- No tax on the first €200,000, and
- 20% tax on the €27,500.

You would receive €222,000 net into your hands (€200,000 + ((1-20%) x €27,500).

Any more of a lump sum taken over and above your 25% 'allowance' will be taxed under PAYE and subject to income tax, USC & PRSI.

If you wanted to take another €300k as you describe above, you could be paying in excess of 50% tax on it (not 20%).

Only pension pots of €2,000,000+ can avail of the ability to pay 20% tax on up to €300,000 (i.e. a 25% lump sum entitlement = €500,000. €200k is tax free, 20% tax is charged on €300k balance, leaving the individual with a net of tax lump sum of €440k).

In short, TLDR, you can pay 20% tax only on €27,500, not €300,000.
 
Answers to post #1

1 State Pension.

1. You can make voluntary Prsi contributions for future years up to age 66
You can also get Jobseekers credits up to age 66. These are reckonable for the Contributory pension in the same way as paid class A or class S or voluntary contributions.

2. Yes you can gain class S contributions from an ARF up to age 70.

3. You don't have to register as a Jobseeker. It is a matter of choice.
The advantages are you could claim Jobseekers benefit for 9 months.
You would gain Jobseekers credits which are free of cost.
These credits could assist you to qualify for Benefit Payment 65.

4. No, you could continue to gain class S from an ARF up to age 70 regardless of taking up employment or self employment.

Read this post for more information

 
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First of all, thank you all for your time and replies!
As a new member I cannot add Likes to posts yet, so will do it in here.

@Mommabearof3 - I will try to apply approach similar to yours while selecting my new health insurance plan. And I'm definitely going to have a professional advice.
@AAAContributor - Yes, I meant "occupational pension". Thank you for correcting my huge mistake in a lump sum's calculations and explaining the correct way to do it. As the taxable amount in my case will be quite small, I will just go and take full 25% of the fund. Although, somebody with larger lump sum, might find that "pros & cons" discussion relevant.
@S class - Thank you for information about State Pension and use of ARF for PRSI contributions. In fact, your posts in other threads were the very first place where I've learned about this option. Apparently it is not widely known. I asked similar questions in my local Citizens Information center but they did not know about it too.

Overall, I do feel that I need educate myself on many aspects of money / financial management.
AAM is a large part of this education.
Thank you all who contributes to the knowledge!
 

Unfortunately even if your wife starts work tomorrow she will never qualify for the homemakers scheme as she has to have had employment or self-employment in Ireland before starting work to qualify.

I see two options for your wife:
  1. The precise calculations are beyond me, but any wealth held outside your ARF, own home, or car will very quickly count as "means" for your wife and decrease the qualified adult payment, possibly down to zero. One solution is to make sure your liquid wealth is very low when you hit 66 so that you satisfy the means test. So you could renovate home, gift cash to family, buy a car, etc in the years before the means test and have to maintain this very low level of liquid wealth throughout retirement;
  2. The the other option is for you to do the following: a) draw down your maximum tax-free lump sum on retirement later this year; b) gift it to your wife tax-free; c) she invests it in an asset that generates profits of at least €5,000 a year so she pays 4% or €500 PRSI whichever is higher. She would get 52 contributions Class S PRSI contributions every year from age 54 to 65 so 624 contributions Under the TCA approach fully in place by the time your wife turns 66, basically she would get 624/4080 or 30% of a contributory state pension in her own right. You could both hold as much wealth as you like but she would not get the increase for a qualified adult.

Please do your own sums on 1) and 2) and I'm grateful to be corrected by other posters if this advice is based on incorrect assumptions.

Otherwise advice from other posters is very good and I won't repeat.

Please do let us know how you get on!
 
Very good plan.

If the investment income from this plan was not enough to generate the full 5000 euro per year she could take up a small amount of self employment each year to make up the shortfall.

If for instance the investment income was 4000 euro and she earned self employment income of 1000 euro, she would gain 52 class S for that year.

She would also have the option to deferr her state pension to age 70 and gain an extra 4 years of Prsi contributions if desired. She would also gain an extra amount of pension payments as a result of the 4 year deferral.
 
Dr Strangelove, thank you for your comments!
Based on your option 2, lump sum calculations from AAAContributor, suggestions from S Class and a 3-bucket strategy I am now considering the following plan:

Buckets: allocation: initial amounts
  • Bucket 3 (B3): my ARF / Long term investments / 12+ years / High risk & return (6+%) : [pension fund] - [lump sum] = 910K - 220K = 690K
  • Bucket 2 (B2): new fund for my wife / Mid-term / 3-12 years / Medium risk & return (2.5-3.5%): [Irish Life funds] + [most of lump sum] 45K + 155K = 200K
  • Bucket 1 (B1): ongoing expenses / Short term / 1-2 years / Cash & current account: [remainder of lump sum] + [joint bank account] = (220K-155K)+25K = 90K
Buckets : annual withdrawals : usage
  • B3: 690K @ 4% (mandatory ARF withdrawals) = 27.6K before tax : to pay my PRSI + to replenish B1 & B2 (as required)
  • B2: 200K @ 3% (expected rate of return) = 6K before tax : to pay my wife's PRSI + to replenish B1 (as required)
  • B1: ~45K : living expenses per annum (unused amount to go to the next year)
  • Note: keep T212 and Alternative investments (~70K total) as a rain-day fund
Questions:
  1. Does above make any sense?
  2. Our Irish Life account is in joint names. Can I gift it to my wife by asking Irish Life to remove my name from it? Its current value is 45K. Also it is now in MAPs 5 & 6, so will have to move it into MAPs 2 or 3.
  3. What would be an acceptable proof for a gift of 155K from my lump sum (it will go into B2) ?

Really appreciate any critique and / or suggestions!
 
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Bucket 2 (B2): new fund for my wife / Mid-term / 3-12 years / Medium risk & return (2.5-3.5%): [Irish Life funds] + [most of lump sum] 45K + 155K = 200K
Just make sure that this is structured so that it pays guaranteed dividends of at least €5k. This is far from my comfort zone when it comes to financial products. A rental property is also an option here but carries other risks.

There is some policy risk here in the sense that the €5k threshold for Class S payments on unearned income may be raised and/or qualifying criteria tightened before your wife reaches 66. Two reasons: the rules haven’t substantially changed since 2014, and the rules allow the kind of financial engineering outlined here where people will take out far more than they put in. But the above is simply educated speculation on my part.

Our Irish Life account is in joint names. Can I gift it to my wife by asking Irish Life to remove my name from it?
Not sure of the practicalities of it but all spousal gifts are CAT-free.

Otherwise do your sums on this carefully - will your wife do better from a partial contributory pension than from a qualified adult increase after means test? Satisfy yourself that she will before you undertake this strategy.
 
Bucket 2 (B2): new fund for my wife / Mid-term / 3-12 years / Medium risk & return (2.5-3.5%): [Irish Life funds] + [most of lump sum] 45K + 155K = 200K

B2: 200K @ 3% (expected rate of return) = 6K before tax : to pay my wife's PRSI + to replenish B1 (as required)

I've highlighted in bold above the items you need to take care with.

The suggestion by @Dr Strangelove to have assets in your wife's name in order to maximise her PRSI contributions is a good one.

However, you need to take care with the practical implementation of this.

The chosen asset(s) will need to throw off an annual income that is subject to income tax, USC & PRSI.

An expected rate of return is not granular enough - i.e. Berkshire Hathaway shares could have an expected rate of return of 10% p.a. but as there is no annual dividend paid on the shares, an investment in such shares would be of no use for accumulating stamps towards the contributory State pension.

Irish Life funds are subject to Exit Tax, and not income tax, USC & PRSI.

Exit Tax is levied on gains at 41% and to the extent there is any annual income/distributions, 41% tax is also charged. This is the full and final liability. There is no liability to USC or PRSI. Also note, 41% tax is due regardless of whether or nor the recipient has other income.

From the Irish Life Technical Guide on Exit Tax::

"Q23. Clients now have to pay PRSI (Pay Related Social Insurance) on unearned income. Does this apply to life assurance plans?
No. PRSI on unearned income will not apply to amounts paid out under life assurance plans."

Realistically, the principal assets most likely available to you that are subject to income tax, USC and PRSI on income are rental property and shares.

The other point mentioned about the longevity of the strategy (i.e. of the ability to qualify for 52 Class S stamps on only €5,000 of income) is worth considering. I have seen no commentary on this but I don't personally think it is sustainable for the pension system to permit such generosity. We are already seeing PRSI increase from October of this year. I'm amazed this nuance would not be in the crosshairs of reform and future proofing the sustainability of the system.

Given you are at a crucial stage, you would really benefit from a financial planner reviewing your household's financial situation and crafting a plan to set you up for the next stage of life. Definitely educate yourself using AAM and other resources but you would benefit from speaking with a good adviser.
 
The other point mentioned about the longevity of the strategy (i.e. of the ability to qualify for 52 Class S stamps on only €5,000 of income) is worth considering.
Agreed.

Class S PRSI contributions are paid at a rate of 4% on all income or €500, whichever is greater.

It seems to be a bit of a glitch in the system that 52 Class S stamps can apparently be generated on anything less than €500pa in some circumstances and I would query whether this anomaly will be allowed to continue.
 
Once again thank you all for your suggestions! Every comment brings some new and valuable information that I should and will consider.

The main one is the need for a professional advice. As mentioned in my initial post, I have tried to find an adviser, who could help with the wide spectrum of my questions, but unfortunately it was not successful so far.

If any advisor is reading this thread and would like to assist, then you know most of my story and the kind of questions I will be asking. Please PM me directly with your contact details / link to you web-site, so I can reach you. (Hopefully this request does not break any AAM rules).

Because of my new membership, I cannot initiate private messages on my side yet, but I will reply to yours.
 
It might be a whole lot easier to forget about this plan to transfer a large cash amount to your wife.

If she could manage to generate 5000 euro of self employment each year she would achieve her aim to get 52 class S.

Perhaps she could set herself up as a self employed grandchildren carer.

Another approach could be to get the parents of the grandchildren to employ her as a child minder. If as a PAYE employee she earns a least 38 euro per week she would qualify for a class A prsi contribution per week.
 
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Financial advisers generally just want to sell you a product.

Sorry for the confusion! It is just showing another gap in my knowledge on this whole area of financial advice and its terminology.
Just to clarify - I am looking for a person that can (for a fee) provide independent advice / assist with questions & issues related to:
  • Occupational pension
  • State pension
  • Investments
  • Tax
  • Financial planning
Some of the questions are in posts above.


For all readers of this thread:
I presume recommendations in public posts are not allowed but please PM me if you know suitable person.


It might be a whole lot easier to forget about this plan to transfer a large cash amount to your wife.

Fully agree with you that registering / formalizing the existing part-time employment (with more certain state pension perspective) does seem as a better option than locking 200K for 12 years in a hope that the PRIS rules will not change.
Will look into this option.
 
Regarding the possibility of future changes to the Prsi system, I would advise you to avail of the benefits of both the class S and class A systems. This will lessen your risk of losing out on possible reckonable contributions if drastic changes are made to either of these two systems.

Your ARF will keep you in the class S system.

If you claim Jobseekers benefit when you cease employment and then continue to sign on yearly for class A credits up to age 66 you will remain in the class A system.

You are allowed to be in both systems.
 
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Just to clarify - I am looking for a person that can (for a fee) provide independent advice / assist with questions & issues related to:
  • Occupational pension
  • State pension
  • Investments
  • Tax
  • Financial planning
Some of the questions are in posts above.
My own experience is that world experts on state pension eligibility are already on this thread Very few offer professional advice on this as there is no money in it.


Perhaps she could set herself up as a self employed grandchildren carer.
I agree that if possible this is a better way of getting your wife into the PRSI system but there may be restrictions on this kind of arrangement when it’s within a family. It’s a separate question which maybe needs its own thread in a different forum. There is less policy risk here too with employment or self employment. My suggested approach above is a lot more vulnerable to the rules changing.
 
For a family employment which is subject to Prsi.

The only restrictions are that the employer cannot be a spouse, or if the work relates to the household, then the employer cannot be residing in the same house as the employee.

Other than that provided that the employee earns a minimum of 38 euro per week the employee will qualify for class A prsi contributions.

I am not certain about the rules for family self employment, but provided there is actual work being carried out and the self employment earnings are at least 5000 euro per year, class S should apply.
 
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Is the OP entitled to claim Jobseekers Benefit ? , seeing as they ceased working totally voluntarily, as they have retired, are not actively seeking employment.

And being available for a new employment, is it not a prerequisite for claiming job seekers benefit ?