11 men to dig a trench!

thedaras said:
There you go. Sums it up.
Even when change is for the better or makes sense. Or could. Prevent wastage or require better productivity or would benefit the customer it Will normally end up on the labour court.
Yay. Go the unions o_O
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Again I must agree with you.

When change is mutually beneficial for companies , employees & customers then there is no reason to go to the Labour Court.

A simple explanatory meeting between management & Unions is generally all that's required.

On the other hand where change negatively impacts on employees well that's another story but then again that's what negotiations between management & Unions & if required the Labour Court is for.
 
What about where changes negatively impacts on customers? Where do customers have a say as when dealing with government services they cannot shop around?
 
Firefly said:
That's one way to resist change and keep the status quo. What about the customer (taxpayer)....where's their say?
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I agree - that's why it is better for employees to work in essentially a fully Unionised workforce.

The taxpayers/electorate voted in the current Government who effectively are the PS employers & who currently set the terms & conditions of such employees - such terms & conditions being safeguarded until at least 2014 by the Croke Park Agreement - what happens after 2014 is anybody's guess , personally I think another Agreement will be entered in to.

Based on this scenario & at the risk of appearing inflammatory any taxpayer who has a problem with the current position is basically consigned to having their say on sites such as this , letters to the papers & from the barstool & other social & work gatherings .

But hey , that's my view on the situation & I've been known to be wrong before
 
They're stuck with it so really as they can't shop around. Can you imagine how that would work in the real world.....Tesco management and workers are in the same union and decide that they want to close on weekend and only open from 9.30 - 12.00 and 14.00-16.30 Monday-Friday. What do you think would happen??
 
Deiseblue said:
Based on this scenario & at the risk of appearing inflammatory any taxpayer who has a problem with the current position is basically consigned to having their say on sites such as this , letters to the papers & from the barstool & other social & work gatherings .

But hey , that's my view on the situation & I've been known to be wrong before
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Another excellent summary of how the public has theire hands tied when trying to get anything resembling progress is suggested. The sad part is that the summary above is true.
But hey ho I'f I were in that position I may fight as hard to not change.
God help those who are in favour of change, when faced with that
Though it is great that people get to see how difficult it must be for anyone in the public or private sector that has to deal with this. Now where did I leave Maggies number...
 
Firefly said:
They're stuck with it so really as they can't shop around. Can you imagine how that would work in the real world.....Tesco management and workers are in the same union and decide that they want to close on weekend and only open from 9.30 - 12.00 and 14.00-16.30 Monday-Friday. What do you think would happen??
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Never going to happen - Tesco workers have terms & conditions that enable Tesco to operate in the fashion they do.

If in a parallel universe the Union decided to work the hours & days outlined by you they would be laughed at of court - the Labour Court !

Equally PS workers have terms & conditions currently safeguarded by the CPA - what do you think would happen if the Government as employers arbitrarily broke the Agreement ?
 
Deiseblue said:
Unionised work forces are always going to have an input into how businesses operate - simply a fact of life ! .
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whilst what you say above is how things happen on the ground, I do find it unbelievable that that they should have any input whatsoever.
It simply makes an PS organisation bloated, inefficient, slow etc. The problem is that the organisation then exists mainly to keep the workers in their safe and secure jobs and secondly, and it's a distant 2nd, to provide a service of sorts to the public at an inflated cost.
wrong wrong wrong in every sense of the word
 
Deiseblue said:
If in a parallel universe the Union decided to work the hours & days outlined by you they would be laughed at of court - the Labour Court !
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unions rarely get laughed out of the Labour Court....its their friend! Some of the decisions made by the less than austere body are beyond all belief and have contributed to the high cost and inefficiency within most PS org's
 
thedaras said:
Another excellent summary of how the public has theire hands tied when trying to get anything resembling progress is suggested. The sad part is that the summary above is true.
But hey ho I'f I were in that position I may fight as hard to not change.
God help those who are in favour of change, when faced with that
Though it is great that people get to see how difficult it must be for anyone in the public or private sector that has to deal with this. Now where did I leave Maggies number...
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The only game currently in play is the Croke Park Agreement that facilitates a reduction in numbers & the overall payroll allied to reform & increased transferability.

The Government seem determined to honour it & see it as a sea change in the operation of the PS.

I think that equates to a rather massive change.

I wouldn't bother ringing Maggie - she will have forgotten the phone call after 5 minutes.
 
Delboy said:
unions rarely get laughed out of the Labour Court....its their friend! Some of the decisions made by the less than austere body are beyond all belief and have contributed to the high cost and inefficiency within most PS org's
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The Labour Court is an independent body much respected by Unions & employers.
 
Deiseblue said:
:D - beats all that employer / union / Labour Court negotiation nonsense.

Might be a good idea if it caught on - Jack O'Connor v Richie Boucher in the National Stadium would sell a few tickets !
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fek, never thought I'd see the day where I'd be cheering on a banker!
 
in the mire said:
Out walking last week, best not to say where (village of famous castle) as I would not like to get people into trouble.
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Isn't this a big part of the problem? Unless you are prepared to actively follow up on this issue, nothing will change. Why not send your photo to the relevant County Manager or Director of Services and see what response you get?

Most councils have lost lots of their direct labour staff in recent years. Lot of these jobs are outsourced to private contractors at fixed fees.
 
Complainer said:
Isn't this a big part of the problem? Unless you are prepared to actively follow up on this issue, nothing will change. Why not send your photo to the relevant County Manager or Director of Services and see what response you get?
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Good Man Complainer, Why not also send people around to public hospitals, government departments, Revenue Offices, etc etc taking photos of staff on their breaks and also taping staff conversations etc etc ?

Then when you are finished send the same people into supermarkets to photo and tape the staff on the check out tills. While you are at it send them into the banks, building societies, insurance offices, solicitors offices to do the same.

Pathetic!
 
Leper said:
Good Man Complainer, Why not also send people around to public hospitals, government departments, Revenue Offices, etc etc taking photos of staff on their breaks and also taping staff conversations etc etc ?

Then when you are finished send the same people into supermarkets to photo and tape the staff on the check out tills. While you are at it send them into the banks, building societies, insurance offices, solicitors offices to do the same.

Pathetic!
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I guess I should have suggested the more usual AAM approach of moaning about things but not actually doing anything constructive.
 
Leper said:
Good Man Complainer, Why not also send people around to public hospitals, government departments, Revenue Offices, etc etc taking photos of staff on their breaks and also taping staff conversations etc etc ?

Then when you are finished send the same people into supermarkets to photo and tape the staff on the check out tills. While you are at it send them into the banks, building societies, insurance offices, solicitors offices to do the same.

Pathetic!
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I agree with complainer here. What do you think people should do when they see their hard earned money being wasted?
 
The like of County Council labourers are an easy target for the likes of Dial-a-Moan. Generally, they work in the open and are ultra visible (add in high-viz vests). A photograph is a moment in time and pictures don't always tell the truth. It is very easy to be Judge, Jury and Executioner especially from behind a nom-de-plume. Even chain gangs in the movies have rest periods; people can't break stones all day long continuously.

I have run shops and other kinds of businesses successfully. I am always aware of providing value and good customer service. Also, I am aware that many customers (especially nowadays) demand customer pandering by bitching about everything that can be bitched about and even when there is nothing to bitch about.


The country has lost its "manliness" along with other virtues. We are bitchin' about relatively minor things e.g. council workers (most of whom probably dont have even secondary education, incidentally I left school during secondary school myself). I fear for genuine people trying to eke out a self employed existence today because not only are they laboured with high costs, ultra-safety procedures, tax, high-rents and plethora of more costs etc, they have to face two-bit twit-inspired moaners looking for some kind of compensation over something small.


Let's take one example of millions of Euro going down the drain and nobody is saying a word. I read it costs the state €70,000 to train a nurse. Two hundred nurses are due to graduate from one university alone this year and this costs the state €14,000000. Nobody is complaining, the nurses/midwives will not work in Ireland as there are no jobs.


Everything is relative and council workers taking a break is not a big deal. Please note I have been (unusually) mild in these posts. I haven't mentioned the cost of our tribunals, bank bail-outs, etc etc.
 
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