11 men to dig a trench!


A half hour coffee break and a 1 hour lunch break... pretty standard in most jobs that I've worked over the past 20 years. Do you follow them at 4pm to see if they are going home ? Perhaps they return to there depot to return equipment before finishing up their working day ?
 
cashier said:
What planet are you on, a contracted JCB driver is most likely on 70 or 80 euro an hour if not more, these guys don't come cheap.
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30e an hr is probably very close to the mark....plant hire, in my experience, has collapsed in price in the past 3 years
It's a joke allright....I know of an PS Org that hires in labour from private companies to supplement it's own work gangs...the PS workers stand back on most jobs and let the private boys do the work. And the private lads are earning close enough to a 3rd of what the PS lads make.
Thats why most PS prices charged to the general public are so high!
 
Leper said:
OOOOOOOOOOh! . . . . . . . . Has Ireland's youth and vibrant yuppies sank to the levels of taking pictures of council workers? What next? . . . . Taping them to have a laugh at what they were saying!
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The OP is a factory worker, an employee. He's part of the proletariat; a "Wurker". His credentials are superb! Since when is a “Wurker” a Yuppie? I know that Yuppies have no right to question how the state spends its citizens money or question inefficiency, sure why would people who aren’t traditional socialists (solicitors and public servants) be afforded the right to voice their disagreement with members of the brethren.

Leper said:
Great to be Judge, Jury and Executioner. I wonder how others would react if pictures were taken of them without permission.
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I was walking down a busy shopping street in Dublin a few years back and someone took my photo. I think it was for one of those generic “person shopping” shots. When I realised what was going on I was deeply alarmed and nearly soiled myself; the shock you know... It’s a few years ago now and I’m almost fully recovered. Thanks for asking.
 

At least they came!!
 
purple: purple, dont you know that there are only particular types of wurkers that are allowed say how our money can be spent.how very dare anyone else question inefficiency's..how very dare anyone who has a good income question how anything in this country is done...how very dare anyone else have an opinion..duh..
Until you earn minimum wage,have been hard done by in life etc ,you are not entitled to an opinion,cos your just a yuppie..
So vote No and push this to its logical conclusion..
 
I must day that I have been impressed by the work ethos of council workers in my area in terms of general maintenance - trimming trees , collecting leaves , maintaining green areas etc.

Equally from years of playing junior soccer on council & corporation pitches in Dublin Parks I must say that the care & maintenance of our Parks is second to none.

In terms of the reaction to relatively recent flooding occurrences I believe that the reaction of both corpo & council workers was exemplary.

People have every right to complain about a rather laissez faire attitude to work no matter what sector it occurs in but everybody should not be tarred with the same brush.
 

I think to be fair that some comments above, particularly my own are tongue in cheek. On a serious note though....given the wage increases and the pension payments that are being made to council workers who look after these parks...can you imagine how much money it is actually costing to keep these parks in order? I should think that if this was outsourced it could be done as well for an aweful lot less money (that, remember, needs to be raised from taxation or borrowed ).
 
I for one am not tarring everyone with the same brush,but when ever anyone questions anything about the public sector,it is taken as an attack on them all,when that is clearly not the case.

By doing this,it halts discussion on those who are taking advantage of the system and have a laissez faire attitude .

When we point out an issue with the private sector it is not taken as a curse on all their houses,however when we question an issue with the public sector it is immediately jumped on as an attack on each and every Public servant.

This in my opinion is a ploy by those who defend the abuses to stop any discussion related to it.And causes others to become even more entrenched in their views.It does the Ps no favours to not acknowledge that this happens and in the majority of cases is not tackled.
If I say that in a particular shop that I found them rude,it doesnt mean that every shop worker is rude,I would have thought that was obvious,however when I point out that I can also shop elsewhere and yet I cannot go anywhere else for say,my passport ,this again is taken as an attack.
There is no reason why people should not point out inefficiency's in a shop, a government organisation or a worker on the street or a banker..
Defending the indefensible ...
 
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As mentioned above 8 workers constructing drainage "water tables" would seem excessive. But this is typical of the kind of work which is occassionaly assigned to CE gangs who are not direct council employees.

While preemptive drainage works along rural roads is a relatively simple task there are often long and protracted "discussions" with landowners who object to the drains or want more drains or want drains in different places. Perhaps the Engineer was on the phone to the land owner trying to sort out such an impasse?
 
Let me clarify my point - inefficiencies , laziness & generally dossing are to be bemoaned in any task or job no matter whether that task or job is performed in either the private or public sector & people should complain & indeed be encouraged to complain about such failings.

Equally good work ethics are to be commended no matter what sector they occur in - of course there are some appalling inefficiencies in the private sector but I would never extrapolate such failings across the entire private sector - only an idiot would do so

Getting back to the trench digging point - I would presume that the employer quantifies the work to be done & then decides on the amount of employees needed to complete the task in hand bearing in mind demarcation issues ( freely negotiated by the employer & the appropriate Union/Unions ) & health & safety legislation - nobody wants a repetition of the tragedies where trenches collapsed & people died.
 
Ajapale : Pity the employer(public or private) didnt sort this before the eight men arrived! If I hired someone to sort the drains and they arrived with eight men and two trucks and stood around for ages, while their boss sorted out something that should have been sorted long before,I certainty wouldn't pay them..but wait..I do/did pay them..
 

presume away.....that would be the ideal world but in the PS, if the gang consists of say, 10 men, and the job could be done by 5 and the other 5 sent somewhere else on another job....what do you think usually happens!!! All 10 get sent on the same job more often than not.
This is down to managerial incompetence (why bother properly scoping a job or dealing with unions/gang bosses if you try something radical such as only sending the right amount of men) and worker refusal to change due to custom/practice, laziness and sheer stubborness.

And why you think that a union/unions should have any input into the way an Organisation carries out it's work is beyond me, but not surprising. As long as the work is done safely, legally etc, then the union should butt out and mind it's own business
 

Unionised work forces are always going to have an input into how businesses operate - simply a fact of life !

Management are employed to manage , Unions endeavour to protect & if possible enhance the terms & conditions of their members - difficulties are inherent because often the views of management & employees are incompatible hence the need for a negotiated settlement.

Equally you are more than entitled to presume away that my presumption as to how the employer assigns the workforce to specified tasks is done - I just happen to believe that your view is incorrect .
 

Unless the management are themselves in the union
 
thedaras said:
Deiseblue;

Only to the extent they are allowed too,by the unions and its members.
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Absolutely correct , in my time I've seen management attempt to introduce change without negotiation , change that would have negatively impacted employees.

Such changes were referred to the Union who negotiated on employees behalf - on many occasions matters ended up with the Labour Court for adjudication - I've always thought that changes are better introduced by negotiation rather than by arbitrary measures.
 
There you go. Sums it up.
Even when change is for the better or makes sense. Or could. Prevent wastage or require better productivity or would benefit the customer it Will normally end up on the labour court.
Yay. Go the unions
 
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