Singles are subsidising the lives of marrieds because of tax anomalies: Discuss

[D8Lady]

[broken link removed]

"SINGLE PEOPLE are subsidising the lives of married couples because of anomalies in the tax system" ...TD Leo Varadkar told the Dáil yesterday.
...
There would be people in this House for example who have the same income as me who have stay-at-home wives who don’t work, yet they pay less tax than I do because their wife doesn’t work...

Being single, I pay a lot of tax. I do not wish to be poor-mouthing but must state I probably pay 40 per cent of my income in tax,” he said. Like many single people in the State, he said, he paid his mortgage and utility bills on his own.

He said it was ironic that if he was to marry someone earning less than €25,000, he would be able to share the costs of living and reduce his tax bill by €7,000...
So essentially you have single people effectively subsidising the lifestyles of people who happen to be married.”

Have to admit, I never thought about it like that. Is it discrimination? Any thoughts?

 

[Lex Foutish]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

He'll probably get the chance to change the tax system soon enough, if he's not careful.

 

[Sherman]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

Of course it's discrimination, which is why the whining of the married, stay at home parents about the tax system being anti-marriage is so silly. It's also discriminatory to co-habiting unmarried couples. Individualisation should have meant just that - everyone pays their own tax and gets their own tax reliefs, and no one elses.

 

[z107]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

Single people aren't subsidising 'S' class directors, who's spouse happens to be an employee.

TDs get paid far, far too much. They should all be on no more than average industrial wage. Even better would be minimum wage.
They shouldn't be allowed 'expenses' either, because they can't be trusted.

 

[z104]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

I thought this was very unfair, well until I got married that is

 

[micmclo]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

My parents told me back in the 70's and early 80's, April was the biggest months for weddings.

April was the start of the tax year so people got married then

 

[Latrade]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

It's basic principle of long term contribution to society. It may be out dated, but it's that married people have kids (certainly more than a single person) and a wife may stay at home to raise the kids.

It's a process of nuturing a future generation that when the single people with no kids look to the state for pensions and support in old age, there are people around to pay the taxes to support this system.

Again there are various reasons why people are single and why even co-habiting couples don't have kids. But the basic principle is simple, it's a relief for the future benefit to society.

 

[Sunny]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

It's basic principle of long term contribution to society. It may be out dated, but it's that married people have kids (certainly more than a single person) and a wife may stay at home to raise the kids.

It's a process of nuturing a future generation that when the single people with no kids look to the state for pensions and support in old age, there are people around to pay the taxes to support this system.

Again there are various reasons why people are single and why even co-habiting couples don't have kids. But the basic principle is simple, it's a relief for the future benefit to society.

Do people actually believe that? Maybe we should punish married people who don't or can't have kids then.......

 

[Latrade]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

Do people actually believe that? Maybe we should punish married people who don't or can't have kids then.......

Well without the general exceptions, what's wrong with the concept? I personally don't believe a marriage is the only conduit to a healthy family unit, but then there are more children born/with married parents than to single.

It's an incentive/reward for raising a future generation of tax payers...and begrudgers.

 

[mro]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

I'm married and both myself and my OH work and pay tax at the higher rate, have no children and claim no benefits, so nobody is subsidising us.

So maybe he should have said working people subsidising non working married people as that is effectively what he is saying.

 

[Berni]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

Are the third of all children that are born outside marriage not worth supporting?

If we accept the original purpose was to encourage people to have children, should we not move to a system of tax credits for each child. Simply getting married doesn't mean you can or will have children.

 

[z104]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

..

 

[z104]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

It's a process of nuturing a future generation ]

Sounds painful. I hope you meant nurturing

 

[huskerdu]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

There is an historical problem that our tax code was designed when a man worked, got married, and supported his non-working wife and children. Life is very different now.

If you believe that the tax code should support families with children, then you must agree that it needs to be completely redesigned to do that, and not designed around
the traditional Irish Catholic notion, that the only families that matter, are those which are based around marriage,

I cant believe that I just agreed with Leo Varadkar. I need to go and lie down.

 

[Latrade]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

There is an historical problem that our tax code was designed when a man worked, got married, and supported his non-working wife and children. Life is very different now.

If you believe that the tax code should support families with children, then you must agree that it needs to be completely redesigned to do that, and not designed around
the traditional Irish Catholic notion, that the only families that matter, are those which are based around marriage,

I cant believe that I just agreed with Leo Varadkar. I need to go and lie down.

I do agree with everything up to agreeing with Leo.

It's about redefining what constitutes a family. However, that's not his point, he's talking about paying more tax as single person living on their own as I read it. So in effect there should be no incentive for "family" whatsoever.

So what if he pays his mortgage and bills on time, don't couples? Don't families? I thought that's what you're supposed to do when you enter into utility agreements.

Our taxes "subsidise" numerous people and groups in areas we wouldn't have need of, that's part of what taxes are for. I may never be a victim of crime or fire or an accident, does that mean I can petition to get tax refief for the bit that goes to Gardai, Fire and Hospitals?

I half wish that there was a reply to his statement of "Get a girlfriend". But to compare the lot of a single person to that of a family and question why a family pays a whopping €7K less it does suggest he didn't have a good night in Coppers the night before.

 

[DB74]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

He said it was ironic that if he was to marry someone earning less than €25,000, he would be able to share the costs of living and reduce his tax bill by €7,000...

Not sure where Leo gets his figures from!

The maximum lower rate band transferable between spouses is €9,000 which results in a saving of €1,890 (€9,000 x 21% tax saving).

There are huge social benefits to having children brought up by their parents as opposed to a creche and the individualisation of the tax bands effectively penalises married couples where one spouse earns more than €45,400 and can often mean that is not feasible for one spouse to stay at home and bring up the children.

The loss in income due to the individualisation of the bands can be as much as €4,854 over a 12-month period.

 

[UFC]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

Single people aren't subsidising 'S' class directors, who's spouse happens to be an employee.

TDs get paid far, far too much. They should all be on no more than average industrial wage. Even better would be minimum wage.
They shouldn't be allowed 'expenses' either, because they can't be trusted.

I'm finding we have the same opinion on nearly everything. I wonder did we grow up together!

But back on topic...

The tax system in general is unfair. As a well paid single person I am subsiding all sorts of things such as married couples (tax breaks) and their kids (childrens allowance).

I try not to think about it too much as I know there's nothing I can do about it and I don't want to get depressed!

 

[michaelm]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

Leo is confused and his figures don't add up. He may have cut & paste his contribution from the Dáil record (possibly an old, post extinction, PD speech) and read it out without thinking; it's not like he hasn't done so before. Perhaps he should consult with his colleague George Lee on Individualisation and sums and things.

 

[huskerdu]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

I do agree with everything up to agreeing with Leo.

It's about redefining what constitutes a family. However, that's not his point, he's talking about paying more tax as single person living on their own as I read it. So in effect there should be no incentive for "family" whatsoever.

So what if he pays his mortgage and bills on time, don't couples? Don't families? I thought that's what you're supposed to do when you enter into utility agreements.

Our taxes "subsidise" numerous people and groups in areas we wouldn't have need of, that's part of what taxes are for. I may never be a victim of crime or fire or an accident, does that mean I can petition to get tax refief for the bit that goes to Gardai, Fire and Hospitals?

I half wish that there was a reply to his statement of "Get a girlfriend". But to compare the lot of a single person to that of a family and question why a family pays a whopping €7K less it does suggest he didn't have a good night in Coppers the night before.

I agree with you completely

 

[huskerdu]

Re: Singles subsidising married - discuss

The tax system in general is unfair. As a well paid single person I am subsiding all sorts of things such as married couples (tax breaks) and their kids (childrens allowance).

I try not to think about it too much as I know there's nothing I can do about it and I don't want to get depressed!

Maybe you should not see it as unfair,that we use our taxes to help people -- lots of groups are "subsidized" by my taxes and I am pleased that we live in a society that does this.

Also, my children will be paying taxes to pay for your pension and medical card in 20/30/40 years time.

If it depresses you that we live in a society and not a group of individuals, you might need to think about this a bit more.