What has this banking commission got to hide?

[NOAH]

I am listening to Mary Harney on the last word and to say I am gobsamcked is putting it mildly. " We want to restore faith in the Irish Banking Industry" So what do we get - A SECRET ENQUIRY"

To restore any faith in banking it should have been an imperative that it would be in public.

When asked why they can do it in public in the USA!! Ah they have a different legal system!! was the reply!

Its no wonder we are in the mire,....


noah

 

[z107]

Why would anyone be shocked about that? Pretty typical course of action for the government. Isn't that what they're all about? corruption, secret deals, bailing out buddies, trying to keep the rich, rich etc...

It doesn't really matter any more anyway. Ireland is finished. We might have a better regime in 10 years.

 

[daithi]

..not if the sheep-like electorate keep voting in the same old faces.This country gets the government it deserves.

daithi

 

[Lex Foutish]

..not if the sheep-like electorate keep voting in the same old faces.This country gets the government it deserves.

daithi

There's a lot in what you say, Daithi. When Jean Kennedy Smith was finishing up as US Ambassador to Ireland, she was asked what she thought of the Irish as a race. One of the points she made was that she was surprised that we seemed to lack a sense of moral outrage.

And the Government know that also. We'll huff and we'll puff but we'll almost always roll over. If all that has gone on in the country over the last few years happened in another country, I'm certain the reaction of the population would be quite different. I heard this morning that 4 Canadian politicians had gone to jail for fiddling their expenses. If it happened here, they'd probably head the poll at the following election.

 

[Bronte]

I don't think the enquiry will tell us anything we don't already know. At least this one isn't going to be a source of income for barristers for 10 years.

There may be a valid reason for having it in secrecy for now. International markets have reacted well to the Lenihan budget and current government strategy and if they knew the half of what went on it might scupper that. I think that the carry on was so bad that no international economist or government would believe it.

Why don't we make predicitions on the outcome of the enquiry and make bets on how long it will take?

 

[Sunny]

There is nothing that can come of this enquiry that can damage Ireland's reputation any more than it has already been damaged.
I think there are some good points in the inquiry but I think like most people that it should be conducted in public even if that meant a change in the law to compel people to appear. I have not heard one convincing argument as to why people cannot attend public hearings like they do in the US and in the UK.

 

[Latrade]

I don't think the enquiry will tell us anything we don't already know.

+1 on this. Whipping up the publiuc bloodlust has been the only card the opposition has in its pack for a while. This enquiry serves absolutely no purpose. We know what went wrong, while we may not know some small details and specific individual actions (thats what the Gardai investigation is for), we know the general gist at least, the important stuff.

I honestly despair at the media. They're either maliciously ignoring logic and sense or they truly are that stupid.

We get told how in America they've already sent someone to prison. Sounds good, but he wasn't part of a bank and he was running an illegal pyramid scheme and he plead guilty (after his sons shopped him in). Big difference. If all the bankers who might have acted illegally had their family shop them in and they plead guilty, we'd have the same result here.

Then we're told of the UK's and US's (ongoing) banking enquiries, in public. Just one small problem, what actually came form the UK enquiry? Anything? Any prosecutions? Any lessons? Nope. And I heard Newstalk justifying this lack of outcome from this process by saying that at least the public got to see the bankers squirm.

And good old FG and Labour want an independent enquiry, but appear to have already drawn up the list of witnesses and who will be called up! Talk about preempting and prejudging the whole thing. Every Minister for finance is to be grilled in public as long as they're FF.

There's you two reasons for this being pushed through and why "people" are dissapointed it's not public. Bloodlust. One to see bankers "squirm" (how does that help me? For those struggling does that actually help you pay the mortgage?) and the other to get Cowen on the stand in public (before the enquiry's even started).

Oh and the mileage the media would get (= ratings = sales) with wall to wall coverage, articles, discussions, dissections, deliberations and if possible maybe even clear an area in St Stephen's Green opposite Anglo to bring back hanging...maybe even a bit of drawing and quartering too. We could all bring pitchforks and torches.

I just don't see what possible worthwhile thing will come from this, at least nothing that can't wait until recover is secured.

It's only a commission. It has no legal remit. It can't compel bankers to give evidence. It can't seize evidence. It is and always would be an FG publicity stunt. Yet, the one thing about it being completed in private is there's a potentially greater chance of evidence being forthcoming.

Hey but on the bright side, there's always the chance too that this competely messes up the Gardai investigation.

 

[z107]

possible maybe even clear an area in St Stephen's Green opposite Anglo to bring back hanging...maybe even a bit of drawing and quartering too. We could all bring pitchforks and torches.

This sounds like an excellent idea! If this were to happen, at least the country would have good news for a change, and something to cheer people up.
We'd also have the immediate benefit of no government to further destroy the country.

 

[dewdrop]

I remember in my far off youth that there was a banking commission here in 1930 or so and it took 4 years if not more. Wondering is there any lessons to be learned or perhaps the 1930 commission had a broader remit.

 

[Sunny]

.

Then we're told of the UK's and US's (ongoing) banking enquiries, in public. Just one small problem, what actually came form the UK enquiry? Anything? Any prosecutions? Any lessons? Nope. And I heard Newstalk justifying this lack of outcome from this process by saying that at least the public got to see the bankers squirm.

.

We are only talking about setting up an inquiry now.... This is what the UK got out of theirs already



And that doesn't include the Turner report. This is nothing to do with making bankers and regulators squirm or prosecutions (in 99% of cases). It has to do with learning what went wrong and taking steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. The problem is that people need to trust the process and and considering the betrayal of trust that was inflcited on this Country by its banks, I can understand why people want this done in the open. And I say that as banker.

I don't think any of the dodgy stuff such as personal loans, transactions etc should be dealth with through this inquiry as thats not what brought down our Financial System so I don't see how it could impact Gardai investigations.

 

[Latrade]

We are only talking about setting up an inquiry now.... This is what the UK got out of theirs already

From the report:

What caused the crisis

The origins of the banking crisis were many and varied, including low real interest rates, a search for yield, apparent excess liquidity and a misplaced faith in financial innovation. These ingredients combined to create an environment rich in overconfidence, over-optimism and the stifling of contrary opinions. Notwithstanding this febrile environment, some of the banks have been the principal authors of their own demise. The culture within parts of British banking has increasingly been one of risk taking leading to the meltdown that we have witnessed. Bankers have made an astonishing mess of the financial system. However, this was a failure not only within individual banks but also of the supervisory system designed to protect the public from systemic risk.

The title of the the report should have been "Enquiry into stating the bleeding obvious".

Other summaries:
Bankers were paid an awful lot.
We didn't regulate enough.

Nothing that we don't or didn't already know. For all the dragging bankers in front of a committee nothing.

The likelihood is that this won't impinge on the Gardai investigation as the remit will be limited so that it can't. Which comes back to the original point, given the understandable restriction, given the limited legal remit of the commission, other than to quench a lust for blood, what's the point?

 

[carpedeum]

Let's face reality. Those bankers who let things run out of control have got away with it. Those who lost directorships and status at the golf club after their forced resignations have been well compensated through final payoff payments whether by salary or pension top-ups, never mind the extravagent payments made up to the beginning of the debacle throughout the Celtic tiger years. There seems to be no way of recovering these rewards.

What really annoys me is John Gormley and his Green colleagues have sold out their principles to row in behind Fianna Fáil, the businessmans' and bankers' party, on this issue for what can only be interpreted as desperation to stay in power. I listened to him on Pat Kenny's radio show this morning as he debated the issue with Shane Ross and he sounded just like any Fianna Fáll soldier sent out to defend the indefensible by clouding the issue with answers of waffle and smokescreening e.g. Brian Lenihan Senior, Chairlie McCreevey, Eamon O'Cuiv or Martin Mansergh. Shame on the Green Party and sympathy to members of the electorate who they duped into voting for them.

By quoting the Murphy Report as an example of an enquiry where secrecy benefitted the outcome, Mr. Gormley is being especially misleading. The Murphy Enquiry had to be held in private to protect the victims of abuse. As Shane Ross stated, the victims in this case are you and me - the taxpayers, customers of the banks and members of the public. Wr don't need protection! We need answers!

 

[Latrade]

...
By quoting the Murphy Report as an example of an enquiry where secrecy benefitted the outcome, Mr. Gormley is being especially misleading. The Murphy Enquiry had to be held in private to protect the victims of abuse. As Shane Ross stated, the victims in this case are you and me - the taxpayers, customers of the banks and members of the public. Wr don't need protection! We need answers!

Agreed on Gormley and the Greens.

But being glib: I thought Shane Ross already knew the answers. At least that's how he pitched his last book just before Christmas.

 

[Conan]

Rather than have an enquiry (public or private) which might take a year to complete, why dont the Oireachtas just buy a copy (just one) of Shane Ross' book (and perhaps each of the other 4 "Angry Men"). These guys seem to understand fully what happened and they even have all the answers as well. Problem solved!

 

[Kine]

Why don't we make predicitions on the outcome of the enquiry and make bets on how long it will take?

Legal profession must be rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of another enquiry...a few more millionaires to make there!

 

[werner]

I don't think the enquiry will tell us anything we don't already know.

Correct!

That is the whole point of the enquiry, now draw your own conclusions about the people in power (and the small party who were decimated in the local elections)who have configured for just that purpose!