How to dismantle the Irish government

Z

z107

Guest
I believe it is now time to disband the Irish government and start again. It has swelled into a monster during bertie's 'leadership', and is now, I believe, beyond repair.
It is time now to start again, before even more damage is done. It is obvious that our politicians simply do not know how to run a country. We need a complete regime change.

- We are now being forced to prop up failed private banks.
- SMEs are being discriminated against due to government interference (employment susbsidy scheme, only for companies with >10 employees). This is a grotesque market distortion.
- DNA database. (Please none of the usual 'If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear' crap)
- Destruction of the welfare state. Check you PRSI entitlements!
- Protection of overpaid hospital consultants via 'Hi-tech prescriptions'
- Illegal VRT. We should have free trade with the EU.
- Countless instances of cronyism, corruption, bad planning, tax incentives for votes etc, etc....

The list goes on.

Any suggestions as to how we can start the process of dismantling the Irish government? I like the 'tax strike' idea.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Any suggestions as to how we can start the process of dismantling the Irish government? I like the 'tax strike' idea.
Click to expand...

We're in a democracy, so you can vote for whomever you want but you'll have to respect the outcome. The TDs in leinster house were given their mandate to govern for 5 years.

Unless you want elections every two years then you'll have to live with the government people vote in.

And the funny thing is that people were happy to keep voting for them when they were making the poor decisions that we wanted them to make becasue we all thought they would benefit us.

I don't get how your list of points are reasons for us all to get upset.

VRT hits car owners, many would consider owning a car to be a luxury

Many people do not want a welfare state

Where you draw the line between intrusion and security is a matter of opinion for you, someone else might think different. In fact some might see people who have been spared the impacts of crime as being selfish when they pontificate about invasion of privacy
 
I don't get how your list of points are reasons for us all to get upset.
Click to expand...
To answer a couple of points:
VRT hits car owners, many would consider owning a car to be a luxury
Click to expand...
I would regard owning a car as a necessity. There is no way I could live in this country without a car. The public transport system is dire. If people do not directly own a car, they probably rely on others that do.

Many people do not want a welfare state
Click to expand...
I don't want a welfare state, but I'm forced to pay for one. I never seem to be entitled to anything. I pay all these PRSI contributions for nothing.

I spoiled my vote in the last general election, so I do not respect the outcome. It was obvious to me that providing property tax breaks at the top of the biggest property bubble this country has ever seen, was a mistake.


One other thing - how could this list not make people upset? Yet again due to terrible leadership we will end up with another gerneration of Irish people having to leave. This makes me furious.
 
There is no way I could live in this country without a car. The public transport system is dire
Click to expand...

Nobody is forcing you to live in a part of the country with no public transport.

I spoiled my vote in the last general election, so I do not respect the outcome.
Click to expand...

If people like you used their vote correctly and all those who couldnt be bothered voting actually voted, then we might not be in the mess we're in. If you dont vote or spoil a vote, you have no right to complain.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
one other thing - how could this list not make people upset? Yet again due to terrible leadership we will end up with another gerneration of irish people having to leave. This makes me furious.
Click to expand...
+1

csirl said:
nobody is forcing you to live in a part of the country with no public transport.



If people like you used their vote correctly and all those who couldnt be bothered voting actually voted, then we might not be in the mess we're in. If you dont vote or spoil a vote, you have no right to complain.
Click to expand...

+1
 
I think it comes down to what we expect from a society.

There is no perfect way of organising ouselves to the satisfaction of everyone.

I personally believe that we are lucky to live in a country like Ireland and a community like the EU. We are fairly well off, have relatively little danger in our lives and are a reasonably caring country.

All you can hope for is a relatively fair system, as far as I'm aware democracy is as good as it gets from historic analysis. After that we all have to do our own bit to try maintain some semblance of society.

Nazi germany and fascist Italy arose because people were disillusioned and reacted in a knee jerk fashion to what they believed were failed systems.

In short I think we just have to try make our democratic society work and subverting it will achieve nothing
 
csirl said:
Nobody is forcing you to live in a part of the country with no public transport.
Click to expand...

I think that's a bit of a cop out. It is not too much to expect areas to be even vaguely served by public transport. 5 or 6 (more?) entire counties have no train stations at all. Many small towns (and I'm not talking tiny villages, I'm talking towns of 5000+) are not even served by public bus.
 
csirl said:
Nobody is forcing you to live in a part of the country with no public transport.
Click to expand...

So as taxpayers we should just suck up our lousy public transport system, because we're not prepared to emigrate or relocate somewhere. It always amazes me when I go abroad to countries which are far poorer than Ireland and yet you can depend on a decent transport system. Here, they try and make it as difficult as possible to use your car but fail to provide a proper alternative. And waiting at a bus stop for 20 minutes in the morning rush hour hoping the bus won't be full when it arrives it not an acceptable alternative in my view. (and that's in Dublin)
 
If people like you used their vote correctly and all those who couldnt be bothered voting actually voted, then we might not be in the mess we're in. If you dont vote or spoil a vote, you have no right to complain.
Click to expand...
The people who did vote in the government are the ones responsible. I spoiled my vote because it was the only logical option to me. My conscience is clear in this regard.
I have every right to complain.

With regards to public transport - what part of the country should I be living in then? Dublin, with its two, unconnected, Luas lines? or is there somewhere else I don't know about? When I did live in Dublin I still relied on a car. I tried the bus, but it just didn't work out. Most routes involved going into the city centre, and then back out again. I remember once trying to go out in the evening, waiting over two hours for a bus, and just walking back home again to get the car.
I hate driving BTW, and would love not to have to rely on a car.

Anyway, this may be going off topic - ways to dismantle the government, before even more damage is done.
 
Charlie Haughey's valediction (re-punctuated) seems to apply to many other policitians:

"I have done the state. Some service! And they know it!

Maybe we should make ourselves another province of, say, Denmark? They seem able to make a small country prosperous and well-run...
 
csirl said:
If people like you used their vote correctly and all those who couldnt be bothered voting actually voted, then we might not be in the mess we're in. If you dont vote or spoil a vote, you have no right to complain.
Click to expand...

Rubbish

There is a finite list of candidates on a ballot paper. You HAVE to choose one if you want to exercise your vote without spoiling. To lump vote spoilers in with people who refuse to vote is plain silly. People who spoil their votes are often indicating that they WANT to take part in the process but feel that that there is nobody suitable to represent them.

And don't come back with "well then run for election yourself" - the whole system is party based - it is next to near impossible to get elected as an independent TD in this country. Most of the indepedent TDs we have are former party members who have since scratched enough backs to get in off their own bat next time out.

There should be an option on the ballot paper to indicate your unhappiness with the current list of options and if, say 25% of voters choose this option then a re-run should be held with entirely new candidates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/None_of_the_Above
 
DB74 said:
Rubbish

There is a finite list of candidates on a ballot paper. You HAVE to choose one if you want to exercise your vote without spoiling. To lump vote spoilers in with people who refuse to vote is plain silly. People who spoil their votes are often indicating that they WANT to take part in the process but feel that that there is nobody suitable to represent them.

And don't come back with "well then run for election yourself" - the whole system is party based - it is next to near impossible to get elected as an independent TD in this country. Most of the indepedent TDs we have are former party members who have since scratched enough backs to get in off their own bat next time out.

There should be an option on the ballot paper to indicate your unhappiness with the current list of options and if, say 25% of voters choose this option then a re-run should be held with entirely new candidates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/None_of_the_Above
Click to expand...

I dont agree that it is impossible for independents to get elected. Over the years there have been plenty of unconnected independents get elected e.g. Tony Gregory, Finian McGrath.

Say you do have a "none of the above" option on the ballot and the "none of the aboves" win? What happens then? Where are you going to get the new candidates considering that anyone who was interested in running would have been on the ballot? You can't force people to run for election.

What happens if "none of the above" wins a second, or third or fourth re-run?
 
Say you do have a "none of the above" option on the ballot and the "none of the aboves" win?
Click to expand...
Well, should that in itself not suggest something?
Maybe something more fundamental is wrong, if this happens.
We don't know if this is the case at the moment.
 
2 extremely high profile independents is hardly plenty!

And yes, if NOTA is constantly "winning" then does this not send a message to the political parties that we are not interested in the usual sons and daughters of party members being put forward for election.

Also, if NOTA were an alternative, I believe that anybody who fails to exercise their vote on 3 consecutive occasions should have their name removed from the register for a period of say, 5 years after which they can reapply to the register. We could set up a quango to deal with this obviously!
 
There are currently 5 Independent TDs sitting in the Dail:

Joe Behan - was elected as a FF member and resigned from the party in Oct-08
Jackie Healy-Rae - needs no introduction
Michael Lowry - see JHR above
Maureen O'Sullivan - given that she was elected as the "Tony Gregory" candidate she was hardly a "pure" independent in the strict sense of the word

Finian McGrath is the only genuine independent TD in the Dail at the moment IMO
 
Forming a 'None of the Above' party is an excellent idea. Does anyone know how much this would likely cost?
A candidate in every constituency, who would not enter office if they were to win.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top