Anyone else fear for the state of the nation?

I believe the opposition would be just as bad as the current crowd we have in power.
We need something different. The current system lends itself to getting the worst in power. We need intelligent people who can find solutions, not the winners of popularity contests.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
I believe the opposition would be just as bad as the current crowd we have in power.
We need something different. The current system lends itself to getting the worst in power. We need intelligent people who can find solutions, not the winners of popularity contests.
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I'd agree, on the proviso you don't mention socialism, anarchism, communism, the peoples liberation front of Judea or any other loony left organisation as the solution!
 
umop3p!sdn said:
I believe the opposition would be just as bad as the current crowd we have in power.
We need something different. The current system lends itself to getting the worst in power. We need intelligent people who can find solutions, not the winners of popularity contests.
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+1
There was a good article on this very point in the business post last week. A new system is required - a more European style democracy.

Here's the link:
[broken link removed]
 
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umop3p!sdn said:
My understanding is they don't think our rating will go down again. Having gone down two notches, we certainly are more of a risk than we were.
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Yes, more of a risk than we were a couple of years ago, but less of a risk than we were a few months ago - that's all I mean. Recent government action seems to have prompted something of a reevaluation.
 
but less of a risk than we were a few months ago - that's all I mean.
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Could you explain this please? How can we be less of a risk than we were a few months ago if our rating went down on 5 Nov 2009?
 
Caveat said:
Just on this, wasn't there some commentary fairly recently from some European body - or maybe the ECB itself?
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I suspect that is because behind the scenes, the ECB is calling the shots. Probably not a bad thing.
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Could you explain this please? How can we be less of a risk than we were a few months ago if our rating went down on 5 Nov 2009?
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Our Bond Yield and CDS spreads are also well down on what they were a few months ago which better reflects the fact that the market sees Ireland as less of a risk than what it was.
 
I still have a fear of public unrest. I sense an unease even from people who I would not consider to be the type that would normally complain or cause a fuss. And I think it's growing because their is a public perception that the current Government has no mandate.

I do think we will have an election in 2010. If the Budget does not break the coalition apart (remember that they need independent support as well as the Greens), the law of averages suggests that we'll have a couple of By-elections anyway which will tip the balance towards the opposition. Its sad to say, but we usually have 1 or 2 TDs pass away each year.
 
I have not once heard Brian Cowen accept any responsibility for the situation, nor have I heard him talk about the need for the country to change to avoid this again in the future. Indeed he talked on the Late Late Show about getting the show back on the road and getting things back to how they were before. This is why I fear for the nation.
 
When people with garaunteed jobs & pensions are on the streets as we go through the worst financial crisis in our history, at the same time in a year when 200k lost their jobs, if this is the attitude... we are in serious trouble. Whatever "hardship" they are facing, just put it in to perspective.
 
It is everyone for themselves. This is a sad aspect of Irish life.There is no one or group willing to do the right thing by the country.The politicians are the same..they have a very short term agenda and are so close to the grassroots that they find it impossible to do anything unpopular...unless its against a powerless group.There is no long term financial planning by the government...like putting a bit away from the good years to help us in the bad years. The one bit of long term planning is NAMA whereby literaly billions is given to their banking buddies,in the hope that house prices will have risen in 10 or 20 years time.There is no point hoping for a change of government...it will make no difference.The present government have a mandate and let them get on with the cuts...we need them to show real leadership and implement the necessary cuts and ignore the interest groups.The public service need serious pay cuts as do pensions and welfare.
 
csirl said:
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I do think we will have an election in 2010. If the Budget does not break the coalition apart (remember that they need independent support as well as the Greens), the law of averages suggests that we'll have a couple of By-elections anyway which will tip the balance towards the opposition. Its sad to say, but we usually have 1 or 2 TDs pass away each year.
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The decision of the association of higher CS/PS to vote in favor of industrial action is very significant too I think. As I'm sure you know, they are as a whole a very straight laced and conservative group of people and as a rule would be on the management/Governement side in any dispute. The last time they did anything like this was many decades ago!
 
Yeah they were quite happy when lower paid and private workers were taking the pain.Now that they have to take a cut themselves , and remember what a privledged cosseted job they have..with high salaries, big pensions and really lovely working enviroments......well what I am saying is the way they are reacting is no different to low paid factory workers who have been fired without pay.The only big difference is they still retain their jobs and perks.They have tradionally cosied up to the government and used the old school,and college/university old pals act to get their huge salaries and benefits....this has come at the expense of the rest of us.Personally I am disgusted with them and I hope that the gov. will hit them hard in the budget...but somehow I doubt it.
These high paid civil servants children who are now leaving university have no jobs...as none are available due to the stubborn demands of their parents to retain all their benefits....but of course the parents will use all their cntacts to try to get them a job similiar to their own.
 
annR said:
I have not once heard Brian Cowen accept any responsibility for the situation, nor have I heard him talk about the need for the country to change to avoid this again in the future. Indeed he talked on the Late Late Show about getting the show back on the road and getting things back to how they were before. This is why I fear for the nation.
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I think as well some people still see this as a temporary downturn and thing will get back to where they were before.
I don't think this is the case, and if it was, would we want to go back there?
All through the Celtic tiger, there was very little discussion or action around what kind of Ireland we want for the future. (Ireland as a society, not just an economy.)
 
I'm now getting seriously worried about what's happening in Ireland. Job losses are getting worse and worse.

Eircom wants to reduce by 1200
Bus Eireann will lose 222 drivers
Aer Lingus are cutting 1000 jobs

These are just what I've read today. They are not small losses, and each one of these will mean other jobs gone. What will January be like for redundancies? The figures on www.insolvencyjournal.ie are frightening.

The first major budget will be next week, where no doubt they'll be some savage cuts. Now we will also have strikes as well. I'd be surprised if there isn't civil unrest. There is also talk of the EU turning off the money taps.

So, right now I'm pretty scared.
 
Sure don't worry umop3p!sdn. According to Caveat and Sunny the worse the Irish credit rating the better the outlook. The fact that the 5 year CDS spread on our government debt is nearly twice that of Spain and that the only countries in the developed world worse than us in this regard are Greece and Iceland actually demonstrates that the government is performing well and that NAMA is a good idea.
 
darag said:
Sure don't worry umop3p!sdn. According to Caveat and Sunny the worse the Irish credit rating the better the outlook. The fact that the 5 year CDS spread on our government debt is nearly twice that of Spain and that the only countries in the developed world worse than us in this regard are Greece and Iceland actually demonstrates that the government is performing well and that NAMA is a good idea.
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Where did I say that? I work with ratings and credit default swaps every day. The Fitch downgrade and the downgrades by the other agencies was expected by everyone. What everyone was looking at was the accompanying text. The fact that they put the outlook on stable rather than negative was a vote of confidence in Ireland and the road it is going down albeit they are keeping a close eye on events.
As for CDS spreads, of course we are one of the outliners. We are a small open economy suffering one of the worst recessions in the Western World. But look at the trends. It wasn't long ago that Greece was tighter than Ireland. At the start of the year Ireland was over 100bps wider than Greece. Now we are 32bps tighter. Ireland was about 220bps wider than Spain at the start of the year and now they are just 64bps wider.
There is no doubt that Ireland is now perceived rightly or wrongly as less of a risk than it was 10-12 months ago. Of course there are dangers involved and the market will react if the Government deviates from its declared path but for the moment, the markets are giving Ireland and the Government the benefit of the doubt.
 
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