Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% cut?

[Howitzer]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Were we watching the same programme? How many interviewees on your tv spoke about taking a 7.5% pay cut? Every single striker?

I think it's you're doing the misinforming.

I didn't see the entire program but of the section I saw every interviewee - who was prepared to discuss their wages - made reference to the 7.5% pay cut. There was a Garda Sargeant, some girl and some other bloke.

Sorry for not being 100% accurate, I wasn't taking notes at the time, but I believe my point still stands. I don't think by sheer coincidence all 3 earn the same wage and so have the same pension levy deduction,

 

[VOR]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Can any one confirm if the word doc below is authentic. If so, it explains how all stories are pitching the same yarn.

19 November, 2009.

Guidelines for Dealing with Media on 24 November 2009​

Dear Branch Secretary,

Assuming that the one-day strike of Public Servants goes ahead on 24 November 2009, there is likely to be considerable media interest and members could be approached by the media while they are on picket duty.

It might be helpful for members to have a check list of “Do’s and Don’ts” if the media approach them.

DO

Ø Agree to speak to Journalists. There has been such anti Public Service hatred and hysteria whipped up by commentators that the public needs to hear the voices of ‘ordinary’ Public Servants. They need to understand that the Public Service is made up of decent, hard-working people, mostly on modest salaries

Ø Tell your personal circumstances. One of the biggest difficulties for Public Service Unions has been to convey the fact that over 200,000 Public Servants are on salaries of less that €50k per annum. To get this message across requires that it be humanised and told as personal narrative. Tell Journalists what you do, tell them about your financial outgoings and the impact of cuts on your family and yourself, (if you feel comfortable in doing so).

Ø Make the point that Government abandoned the proposals in its April Budget to achieve cuts in the Public Finances’ deficit through a combination of tax increases and expenditure cuts. By doing so, Public Servants, (and Social Welfare recipients), on modest salaries, (tell your details, if you feel comfortable doing so), will have cuts imposed on their incomes while others with substantially higher earnings will escape any tax increases. Stress the unfairness of this

Ø Tell of your frustration/hurt/anger at the campaign of vilification of Public Servants by economic commentators and sections of the media. Explain why you chose public service, how nobody gets rich in the Public Service and how bewildered/hurt you are to be treated in this shameful way

Ø Emphasise that you just want to be treated fairly, that you are not seeking any special treatment just the right to earn an honest living while doing a job from which the public benefits




DON’T

· Slag off Private Sector counterparts. This artificial Public /Private divide is a creation of those who seek to divide workers. The tasks of juggling bills and meeting living costs are the same for people in both sectors on similar incomes. Our many enemies in the media will seek out people to say something controversial abut workers in the Private Sector so that you can be portrayed as greedy and insensitive to people with job insecurity.

· Waste time ranting about politicians or, even, the media. Express your hurt, bewilderment or sense of being let down by your employer and/or the media but, however tempting, avoid long tirades that will be quoted, (about politicians these will be quoted though most certainly not ones about the media as they know that like Caesar’s wife, they are as pure as the driven snow and above reproach). The point is that slagging off Politicians has become a national sport and does little to advance arguments on behalf of Public Servants. Just think about whether headlines with comments describing Politicians as ‘wasters’ etc does anything for our argument.

· Try to negotiate with Journalists. Stick to the basic messages that you want to convey by your presence on the picket line. Do not be tempted to debate the Journalists’ detailed pet hobby-horse. So for instance while if you are asked a leading question about the value of your pension, you could point out that more than half of Public Service pensions are for less than €25,000 per year but, perhaps more usefully, you could ask at what point did having an occupational pension become a grievance and then direct the questioner to ask Government when/if they intend to address the fact that so many people face inadequate pension cover. Suggest to your questioner, therefore, that he/she is asking the wrong question of the wrong person. Keep your reply on that simple position. The point here is do not get drawn into a debate and risk being misinterpreted. Just keep your message simple.

· Tell Journalists in colourful language what you actually think about their profession in light of their treatment of Public Servants, (however tempted you might be !)


I enclose some helpful bullet points also.


Yours sincerely,


T. Geraghty,
General Secretary.


To : All Branch Secs (except IAA, An Post, NLC, Eircom)



1. WHAT WE WANT

Ø Maintenance of pay rates - no further reductions
Ø No Compulsory Redundancies
Ø No disimprovements in Pensions

2. WHY WE ARE ON STRIKE

Ø No Group can be expected to carry the entire burden of the pain of adjustment in our public finances

Ø Equally no group can be exempt from pain

Ø We will make our contribution provided it is fair. Government should negotiate a fair alternative with our Unions

3. WE HAVE CONTRIBUTED ALREADY

Ø In 2009, Public Servants delivered savings of €1.3 Bn (Levy = €940m; Payroll Savings due to vacancies = €150m; Pay Freeze = €230m)

Ø Even without additional measures this will contribute €2,.4 Bn in 2010
(Levy = €1.1Bn; Payroll Reductions = €300m; Pay Freeze = €990m

4. WE ARE UNITED

All Public Service Unions have

Ø Backed the defence of jobs, pay and pensions

Ø Backed the strike on 24 November and have agreed that further action may be necessary if Government refuse to negotiate a fair settlement

Ø An alternative is achievable so that no group shoulders an unfair burden

5. WHAT IS REQUIRED

Ø Government must quantify and recognise the contribution made by Public Servants

Ø Government must set out its longer term plans for the Public Service so that we do not face continuous threats

Ø Government must agree a menu of measures to deliver savings in 2010 if the longer term approach cannot deliver these savings in 2010. These measures must respect the need to protect against redundancies, cuts in pay rates and must avoid pensions disimprovements.

 

[Protocol]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Anyone have any idea roughly how much tax relief to pensions (public and private) costs the government per annum?

Off the top of my head, in excess of 2bn in estimated tax forgeone.

 

[Shawady]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Off the top of my head, in excess of 2bn in estimated tax forgeone.

According to ERSI report today, a move to a single rate of 30% would save the government 500 million. This would seem like an easy thing to implement as it would be of benefit to lower earners.

 

[Sunny]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

According to ERSI report today, a move to a single rate of 30% would save the government 500 million. This would seem like an easy thing to implement as it would be of benefit to lower earners.

And screw middle class earners. There was an interesting report done during the week by someone from Trinity. Try and look past the fact that it was commissioned by Irish Life! Think it is being talked about on another thread.

 

[Latrade]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Can any one confirm if the word doc below is authentic. If so, it explains how all stories are pitching the same yarn.

Not sure, some of the language is a bit too colloquial for official documents.

Interesting though (emphasis mine):

Tell your personal circumstances. One of the biggest difficulties for Public Service Unions has been to convey the fact that over 200,000 Public Servants are on salaries of less that €50k per annum.

Not saying whether I think that's a reasonable level or not (not really sure I'd be using 50K to gain sympathy), but the union proposal for the joint incomes of €100k to be taxed at a higher rate. Would include a large proportion of PS/CS employees too by the looks of it.

 

[Shawady]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Wouldn't see it as screwing the middle class. The government is going to have to raise revenue as well as cuts and this could be an option. If it was introduced at the same time as bringing more low earners into the tax net it might be a runner.
I think the government seem to be talking about a rate of 33% anyway.

 

[galleyslave]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

since when did a 50k salary equate to modest? I thought the industrial average was mid thirties... either I'm getting old and yearning for the good old days when milk was thruppence or somebody is trying to redefince 'modest income'

 

[Caveat]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Not saying whether I think that's a reasonable level or not (not really sure I'd be using 50K to gain sympathy), but the union proposal for the joint incomes of €100k to be taxed at a higher rate. Would include a large proportion of PS/CS employees too by the looks of it.

Exactly.

Aside from the authenticity or not of the document wasn't there a full page newspaper ad the other day outlining how 4 in 10 public servants earn less than 40K? (Didn't see this - maybe someone can confirm)

Neither is 40K a figure that should elicit sympathy or outrage IMO. I know plenty of people earning less than 40K.

 

[Sunny]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Wouldn't see it as screwing the middle class. The government is going to have to raise revenue as well as cuts and this could be an option. If it was introduced at the same time as bringing more low earners into the tax net it might be a runner.
I think the government seem to be talking about a rate of 33% anyway.

I just mean it would take away any benefit for middle class earners to invest in a pension. I agree that lower paid workers should be given more encouragement but I would stop investing with a 30% flat rate because of the tax I will have to pay at the receipt of the pension would not make it worth my while.

There probably is a better way to work the entire system but not convinced a flat rate is the way to do it.

 

[Purple]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Exactly.

Aside from the authenticity or not of the document wasn't there a full page newspaper ad the other day outlining how 4 in 10 public servants earn less than 40K? (Didn't see this - maybe someone can confirm)

Neither is 40K a figure that should elicit sympathy or outrage IMO. I know plenty of people earning less than 40K.

What proportion of public service employees work part time or job share? Are the unions counting two pwoplw job sharing as one or two salaries when they talk about these things?

 

[VOR]

Re: Public Service Employees, does your before tax salary show a 7-8% cut or a 3-4% c

Guys, I want to stress again that I was sent that PSEU release but do not know if it authentic. It is not on their website which shows no circulars after Nov 17. However, it is written in the style of other branch circulars from this year.