The Swine Flu Scam

[truthseeker]

Because the GPs/staff go to the person presenting the symptoms and not the person going to the GP.

Ah - thats interesting, so only house call doctors are taking swabs then?
I would imagine that would skew the figures a lot, its very expensive to have a house call.

 

[S.L.F]

ong I totally agree with you on this.

It's just another load of mass hysteria caused by the news papers and their masters

 

[onq]

The fact that this ramble interchanges tamiflu with vaccines leads me to conclude it's all bull.

<looks over post>

No it doesn't, it quotes 4th Estate reports that Tamiflu is being combined with other measures to treat Tamiflu-resistant strains of the virus.

There's so much wrong with it I honestly don't know where to begin, plus it'll probably get pulled anyway under the terms of the site.

In the first case begin by correctly reading what's been posted.
In the second case its the mods call and I'm happy abide by their decision.
Are you suggesting that the "letting off steam" forum is the wrong place for a rant?

Sometimes it's better to get your scientific understanding from actually being involved in science rather than websites for fellow paranoid conspiracy lovers.

Ad-hominem attacks are far less effective than you'd think...

Your comment seems to be based on something other than what I wrote.
This is being done openly, not secretly, and its an issue of incorrect reasoning.
The report came from CBS and the other issues were widely reported in the papers.
I stated that there is limited empirical testing of a cocktail of measures which could do more harm than the virus itself.
I stated that the current evidence of an epidemic rests on limited availablity of hard evidence that there is a significant risk or significant incidence.
I cannot recall hearing one independently verified confirmation that a person who alleged died of swine flu actually died from that disease, as opposed to one of these apparently innumerable and ill-defined "underlying causes".

There are two simple questions to answer.

1. Are these deaths due to swine flu or not?
By all accounts its not an immuno-suppressant, so why can't the cause of death be definitively stated to be swin flu?

2. Are the proposed "cures" or "preventative measures" safe or not?
Nobody seems to know and yet our country has spent millions on them.

FWIW

ONQ.

"it'll probably get pulled anyway under the terms of the site"

- Latrade in post 956922 employing wishful thinking instead of reading and responding to a post

 

[S.L.F]

She has various friends who give her info and keep her up to speed on what is going on in the world.

One of her friends sent her this...

*************************************

DR. RUSSELL BLAYLOCK ON SWINE FLU

This is an email sent to a friend of Dr. Blaylock and is now being
forwarded to anyone interested. Please pass it along. Also note the
attached biography of Dr. Blaylock. Dr. Blaylock is a board
certified neurosurgeon, author and lecturer. He attended the LSU
School of Medicine in New Orleans and completed his general surgical
internship and neurosurgical residency at the Medical University of
South Carolina in Charleston , SC.

No one should take this vaccine (Swine Flu vaccine) it is one of the
most dangerous vaccines ever devised. It contains an immune adjuvant
called squalene (MF-59) which has been shown to cause severe
autoimmune disorders such as MS, rheumatoid arthritis and Lupus.
The newsletter for August covers this and it may not be out yet.
This is the vaccine adjuvant that is strongly linked to the Gulf War
syndrome, which killed over 10,000 soldiers and caused a 200%
increase in the fatal disease ALS (Lou Gehreg disease). This virus
H1N1 kills by causing a cytokine storm , which means that it causes
the body s immune system to overreact and that is why it is killing
young people and is a mild disease in the elderly. (The elderly have
weakened immune systems.) This vaccine is a very powerful immune
stimulator and carries the real possibility of making the lethality
of the virus much greater.
One s best protection is vitamin D3.. One should take 5000 IU a day
now and when the disease begins to spread increase the dose to
15,000 IU a day. Vitamin D3 modulates the immune reaction, reducing
the chance of an
overreaction and stimulates the body to produce what are called
antimicrobial peptides, which are powerful killers of viruses that
does not involve immunity. This is dose related, which means the
higher the dose of vitamin D3 the better the protection. Fish oils
(the best is Carlson s Norwegian lemon flavored fish oil) also
reduce immune overreaction. One teaspoon a day should be sufficient.
For severe symptoms, one teaspoon twice a day. Antioxidants of
various kinds also help this includes, quercetin, curcumin, grape
seed extract, vitamin C and natural vitamin E. A good
multivitamin/mineral such as Extend Core ([broken link removed]) is also
essential.

Feel free to spread this around. People need to know how to protect
themselves.

Type in the following in your search venue on the internet:
Dr. Russell Blaylock on 1976 Swine Flu and Outbreak Today


Cleveland Clinic is ranked one of the top hospitals in America by
U.S. News & World Report (2008).

Visit us online at http://www.clevelandclinic.org for a complete
listing of our services, staff and locations.

 

[Latrade]

Ah - thats interesting, so only house call doctors are taking swabs then?
I would imagine that would skew the figures a lot, its very expensive to have a house call.

Nope. It is actually quite simple. The World Health Organisation has a requirement that all cases of Influenza Like Illness are confirmed in the early stages of a pandemic. Once they escalated it to Level 6 (i.e. widespread activity) that requirement is dropped and the recommendation is that there is 10% swabbing to ascertain a percentage of cases confirmed.

As a result, the HSE selected a quota of GPs who would continue to swab when suspected cases arise. That's what is happening and it isn't that difficult, controversial or stupid.

<looks over post>

No it doesn't, it quotes 4th Estate reports that Tamiflu is being combined with other measures to treat Tamiflu-resistant strains of the virus.

In the first case begin by correctly reading what's been posted.
In the second case its the mods call and I'm happy abide by their decision.
Are you suggesting that the "letting off steam" forum is the wrong place for a rant?


Ad-hominem attacks are far less effective than you'd think...

Your comment seems to be based on something other than what I wrote.
This is being done openly, not secretly, and its an issue of incorrect reasoning.
The report came from CBS and the other issues were widely reported in the papers.
I stated that there is limited empirical testing of a cocktail of measures which could do more harm than the virus itself.
I stated that the current evidence of an epidemic rests on limited availablity of hard evidence that there is a significant risk or significant incidence.
I cannot recall hearing one independently verified confirmation that a person who alleged died of swine flu actually died from that disease, as opposed to one of these apparently innumerable and ill-defined "underlying causes".

There are two simple questions to answer.

1. Are these deaths due to swine flu or not?
By all accounts its not an immuno-suppressant, so why can't the cause of death be definitively stated to be swin flu?

2. Are the proposed "cures" or "preventative measures" safe or not?
Nobody seems to know and yet our country has spent millions on them.

FWIW

ONQ.

"it'll probably get pulled anyway under the terms of the site"

- Latrade in post 956922 employing wishful thinking instead of reading and responding to a post

Maybe it was how the post was written, but comments on tamiflu seemed to lead to a conclusion on vaccines. The resistance to tamiflu had nothing to do with the medication nor the health departments nor the governments. It was more thanks to the media harping on about tamiflu as if it were a preventative medication rather than a glorified (though effective) lemsip.

The resistant strains were exactly what the Dept of Health, governments and manufacturers feared because you had people stockpiling on tamiflu and chomping on it like it were sweets.

What wishful thinking is it when medical discussions are regularly stopped? In fact previous discussions on Swine Flu have also been stopped?

I'm more than prepared to discuss an issue, but the irony is you present an argument of scare mongering by countering the alleged scare mongering with even more (and potentially more harmful) scare mongering from the press.

That's where the problem lies, it is not a government conspiracy, the the press' inability to just present some simple information.

Here it is, the stuff they cannot seem to get their heads around.

1. It is a pandemic. End of. But "pandemic" does not mean it is Armageddon and the end of the world. It simply relates to how easily transmitted a virus is between humans and the uptake worldwide. That's what we have, that's where we are.

2. It only has mild symptoms in the majority of cases. At no point have the state or the HSE said anything different. They have gone out their way to say it is a moderate dose not just since April, but every single week in their press releases.

3. It is completely different to other media scares such as SARS, Avian Flu because immediately it spread between humans. Neither Sars nor Avian flu have managed this and while there are still cases (funnily enough they have a much higher mortality rate) of both, they can only be caught through close contact with infected animals.

4. It is a new virus so we really, really do not know what's going to happen down the line. We have some idea based on previous similar pandemics but we don't know whether come March this thing will just go away. There's a chance it will come back stronger in a third wave. But you should not find one educated medical professional making any predictions.

5. It is again different to the seasonal flu because of the age population it is affecting. If you were to plot a graph with age and number of cases, you'd see a "bathtub curve" with the young and elderly affected most by the flu. This is skewed to the young and tailing off around 35 years. That doesn't happen with a normal flu. The thing is yet again the health professionals are quite open in that they have no idea why it does that. All we know is that during the 1918 pandemic, it followed a similar model.

6. The deaths are complications as a result of contracting swine flu. Most were already pretty ill, however the swine flu caused significant complications. They got swine flu and they died, that is all the HSE are saying, not that swine flu is killing everyone. Again, they cannot be more open in saying it is a mild dose and the mortality rate is very low.

Flu is not in itself immuno-suppressant but if you are suffering from a serious illness that is, then you can imagine it's difficult for the system to actually fight the flu which leads to further complications. In fact, the deaths from seasonal flu is not the flu itself doing the killing, but the complications. Why is that difficult to grasp or why is it something to knock the HSE with when they've never contradicted this?

7. The number of cases reported to GPs is exceptionally high. Even in the summer when flu is supposed to be dormant, the number of cases exceeded the usual seasonal flu rate at its peak. Rates now exceed the highest seasonal flu recorded in Ireland by some way and we've still a month or so before the peak season for flu. 3% of the population have been affected by the swine flu. Average numbers are between that and 5% for the total flu season which we've only just hit.

8. The vaccine is not new, has not been made by nazi sympathisers, is not big Pharma trying to introduce mind control and is categorically not governments looking to cull our children. The basis for the flu vaccine is the same every year and every year it is slight altered to account for the new version of the seasonal flu. It was the exact same set up for this flu, why it was processed quicker is because they were already set up to proceed with the seasonal flu so most of the leg work was already done.

9. There has been controversy over whether the vaccine will do more harm than good. However, first to consider is Mrs Latrade and her mother cannot take the vaccine due to allergy to eggs. I'm having it so she doesn't have to. Vaccination is essential to forming a barrier in the population to viruses.

Also, there was suggestion that neurological conditions can be caused by flu vaccines. One report following an outbreak in the States linked the two. The report wasn't covered up, it wasn't hidden, it was released and discussed. However, when every single investigation into the findings and attempts to replicate the study reported back they showed different findings. And this has been the case ever since. It is strongly supported that the condition is caused by the virus (you do not get a dose of the virus in a vaccine) and not the vaccine.

10. However, is the vaccine safe? Well yes it is. But...as with every single medication in the world some people will present side affects or have a reaction. And guess what, the HSE are reporting those! So again no hidden data, no conspiracy. They are telling us exactly what is happening so we can make an informed decision. However listening to the camp who would promote anti-vaccine trash (thus directly causing non-vaccinated children to die) does not make people informed, but scared.

11. Nobody in this state is being forced or is forced to have any vaccine. Even health care workers and doctors aren't forced. It was suggested in the States and I'd guess some have even tried to bring it in there, but that's their problem not ours.

That's it in a nutshell. Are the media playing this up? Yes on slow news days. But that doesn't make a conspiracy, it makes inept journalism. The same journalism that also quotes the nut jobs trying to undermine a vaccination programme, the same journalists who promote the same crack pots as part of a fair and balanced discussion and have nicely helped cause measles to come back and start killing kids again.

 

[micheller]

I found this article interesting:
[broken link removed]

The ECDC stated that swineflu could kill the same number as normal seasonal influenza does every year. It simply has a different age profile.
Is everyone this fearful of normal flu? Usually not.
If the situation stays like this I won't be having this vaccine.

 

[RMCF]

You're right, it makes more sense to have someone presenting the symptoms of a rapidly transmissable virus go to an area where you have other members of the public waiting. It also makes perfect sense to have them go to the same place where you have the very people who are at risk from serious complications waiting to see the GP.

Why, those doctors and stuff just don't know what they're talking about. They're just forcing a malingerer's charter on us.

You sound like one of the dream customers for the 'Culture Of Fear' makers - simply believe everything you are told, like the rest of the sheep. I bet you you were terrified when they said Bird Flu could, if it escaped into the West, could wipe out millions. And you ask who's hyping it? Have you not seen the news, media reports for the last 6 months. I actually seen one report that said that half the worlds population could catch this. Half the worlds population !! Needless to say I had a good laugh at that. You probably cried.

Here's an idea, why don't we all stop going to GPs full stop - let them diagnose everything over the phone sure.

I have no doubt in this country people are phoning their GP to say they have flu-like symptoms to get a week off work. And I'm sure its happening in big numbers.

 

[lightswitch]

you sound like one of the dream customers for the 'culture of fear' makers - simply believe everything you are told, like the rest of the sheep. I bet you you were terrified when they said bird flu could, if it escaped into the west, could wipe out millions. And you ask who's hyping it? Have you not seen the news, media reports for the last 6 months. I actually seen one report that said that half the worlds population could catch this. Half the worlds population !! Needless to say i had a good laugh at that. You probably cried.

Here's an idea, why don't we all stop going to gps full stop - let them diagnose everything over the phone sure.

I have no doubt in this country people are phoning their gp to say they have flu-like symptoms to get a week off work. And i'm sure its happening in big numbers.

+1

 

[Bronte]

I asked how he knew he had it. The GP diagnosed him with swine flu over the phone.

Really the Irish Health Service are worse than I thought. At least it didn't cost him 60 Euro for that advice unless he had to pay by electronic transfer for the phone consultation.

 

[Latrade]

You sound like one of the dream customers for the 'Culture Of Fear' makers - simply believe everything you are told, like the rest of the sheep. I bet you you were terrified when they said Bird Flu could, if it escaped into the West, could wipe out millions. And you ask who's hyping it? Have you not seen the news, media reports for the last 6 months. I actually seen one report that said that half the worlds population could catch this. Half the worlds population !! Needless to say I had a good laugh at that. You probably cried.

Here's an idea, why don't we all stop going to GPs full stop - let them diagnose everything over the phone sure.

I have no doubt in this country people are phoning their GP to say they have flu-like symptoms to get a week off work. And I'm sure its happening in big numbers.

That's an awful lot of supposition about me. Where have I ever said anything about 50% of the population? Where have I said anything that contradicts that the media are the ones hyping this?

It's simple, you just look at the actual statistics and numbers, that's all I ask. It isn't as random as you'd think, there are large numbers contracting the virus, but it is just a mild strain. And that's it.

Funny thing though is that there really isn't a whole load of people phoning their GP to get a week off work, it just isn't happening on any kind of scale. But then if you're in no doubt about that it is who am I to argue when you seem to be more inclined to make spurious claims and promulgate outrage at a situation that just doesn't exist.

 

[Vanilla]

I'll have to make a decision over the next week as to whether to get our children vaccinated. We are all perfectly healthy with no underlying medical issues. Hard to know. I will probably make appt with my GP to discuss it.

 

[RMCF]

Myself and the OH (well her really) are on the verge of having a baby.

Her consultant at the last scan advised her NOT to get the vaccine - said there isn't enough evidence that it is completely safe.

We weren't going to have it anyway, but just asked him his opinion.

 

[michaelm]

I'll have to make a decision over the next week as to whether to get our children vaccinated. We are all perfectly healthy with no underlying medical issues. Hard to know.

I'm in the same boat. My instinct is against.

 

[DavyJones]

I'll have to make a decision over the next week as to whether to get our children vaccinated. We are all perfectly healthy with no underlying medical issues. Hard to know. I will probably make appt with my GP to discuss it.

I'm in the same boat. My instinct is against.

I too must decide on my childrens jab, my wife is against it but I belive in modern medicine. It will be interesting when the time comes.

My one question is, how many people worldwide die from the regular flu annually?

 

[truthseeker]

Here's an idea, why don't we all stop going to GPs full stop - let them diagnose everything over the phone sure.

If it would save me the 60 euro per visit Id definitely be phoning rather than visiting!!

I have no doubt in this country people are phoning their GP to say they have flu-like symptoms to get a week off work. And I'm sure its happening in big numbers.

Never even thought of that, wonder will they issue a medical cert over the phone?

 

[truthseeker]

That's what is happening and it isn't that difficult, controversial or stupid.

Where did I say it was? I simply commented that it was 'interesting'.

Even more interesting is how you managed to deduce the above from my post!!

Its a full blown culture of fear storm in a teacup.

 

[Caveat]

My one question is, how many people worldwide die from the regular flu annually?

Worldwide, I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that annual deaths exceed 100,000 all the time - sometimes more than double this.

 

[micheller]

Worldwide, I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that annual deaths exceed 100,000 all the time - sometimes more than double this.

Sounds about right considering the IT article posted said normally 40,000 a year in Europe.

 

[Latrade]

Where did I say it was? I simply commented that it was 'interesting'.

Even more interesting is how you managed to deduce the above from my post!!

Its a full blown culture of fear storm in a teacup.

So what's so interesting about a pretty sensible and standard way of monitoring levels?

And I keep coming back to where exactly is the fear being generated from? The fact is that it isn't the HSE, the HSE are handling this more than adeuqately and proportionally to the actual risk. Their precautions are entirely sensible and reasonable and have nothing to do with generating fear.

Sounds about right considering the IT article posted said normally 40,000 a year in Europe.

The like for likes are difficult because of the different age range affected by the current virus. Given we're into the general season already it's unlikely it'll mutate into anything more serious at this stage.

Overall though seasonal flu also affects the elderly more and so naturally has a greater mortality rate, where as the "swine" flu tends to affect a younger healthier population. All that can be said is that in other similar pandemics it's among the younger and healthier population that we've seen the large number of deaths. But then the caveat to this is 2009 is way different kettle of fish to 1918. Not just in terms of health care and overall health and nutrition, but sociologically too.

Realistically, unless there's a very sudden mutation during this current wave, I can't see the mortality rate being as high as the seasonal flu (roughly 1% of seasonal flu cases result in death).

 

[Sumatra]

I haven't seen any evidence to suggest the swine flu vaccine isn't safe but plenty of evidence to suggest getting swine flu can be lethal.

Weighing up all the evidence our family choose to have the vaccine yesterday.