Bad debts - accepting personal responsibility

[so-crates]

The idea of debt forgiveness seems to be cropping up quite a bit in the mainstream media of late.

It might be time to load up the credit card so, as a taxpayer, I'm not lumbered with paying for other people's foreign holidays and timber decking whilst having noting to show for it myself. That's what you're supposed to do, right?

Similar to the occasional poster in the mortgages forum with a fixed rate looking for a way out of it that they don't have to pay. People seem to have got the notion that they don't have to pay for themselves and their choices. That there is someone else that they can appeal to, stamp their foot at and get what they want. Effectively these individuals act as overgrown children and expect the state to "parent" them. They want no responsibility for themselves when things get hard.

An employer is effectively in debt to their employees for the wages. How would these people feel if the same logic was applied to their wages and the employer decided not to pay?

 

[Bronte]

It might be time to load up the credit card so, as a taxpayer, I'm not lumbered with paying for other people's foreign holidays and timber decking whilst having noting to show for it myself. That's what you're supposed to do, right?

You should get cracking on this now in time for the new fine's bill. Instead of having to repay the money or going to jail for refusing you'll be able to do a bit of community service.

 

[Complainer]

An employer is effectively in debt to their employees for the wages. How would these people feel if the same logic was applied to their wages and the employer decided not to pay?

I guess you could ask the employees of the many underfunded DB pension schemes around the country. It seems to be very acceptable for employers not to meet these contractual obligations.

 

[thedaras]

Similar to the occasional poster in the mortgages forum with a fixed rate looking for a way out of it that they don't have to pay.

People seem to have got the notion that they don't have to pay for themselves and their choices. That there is someone else that they can appeal to, stamp their foot at and get what they want. Effectively these individuals act as overgrown children and expect the state to "parent" them. They want no responsibility for themselves when things get hard.

Hang on a second there..some people make choices based on their income,when the government make a mess of things that choice is then taken away from the people by having to have their salarys cut to pay for the appalling decisions the government made!

People cannot be expected to( altough Im not so sure anymore) put away money for future mistakes the government will make..

So in essence we are now expected to save for a rainy day,which is fine ,not spend ,just in case, put away any extra increases we are given ,just in case the government need it.

I would think most people whom have a bit of sense didnt overstretch themselves,however even those who did the "right thing"have to bail out the government,so it would appear that no matter what we do,we cannot do it right.

Those of us lucky enough to have a secure job usually base our outgoings on our salary,then the goverment decide,we will have some of that,and thats it,we have no choice.

An employer is effectively in debt to their employees for the wages. How would these people feel if the same logic was applied to their wages and the employer decided not to pay?

You mean like the government just did?
Because thats exactly what the government did do,they are taking money from us because of their mess up.
When a goverment gives way too much money during a boom,this is the result..they ,unlike some of us,did not save for the rainy day.

 

[Howitzer]

Looks like Pat Kenny may read AAM. [broken link removed].

How often have you heard that triumvirate blamed for the country's economic woes over the last 12 months. There's no doubt that all three groups have a case to answer but, as a people, have we really looked at our own collective responsibility for creating an unsustainable boom and setting up ourselves up for a painful collapse?

After all, house prices didn't soar to unbelievable levels because Irish people wouldn't or couldn't pay those prices - they soared because we could and we did. Sure, credit was relatively easy to get but if the bank offers you a loan and you end up being unable to repay it, is it entirely the bank's fault - do you yourself have no responsibility in this?

That line of argument angers many people who say, understandably, "I had no option but to pay €450,000 for that house - if I hadn't offered that much, somebody else would have". That's true, of course, and it's very hard not to sympathise. But is that the same as having no responsibility? It may be true that if you didn't pay €450,000 someone else would have, but equally other buyers in the market were forced to offer €50,000 because if they didn't you would have. It may be that while individually no one can reasonably be blamed, as a people we bear a collective responsibility which is no less real.

Of course we also made it clear that political parties who promised to spend more and tax less would be rewarded and that anyone who rained on the parade by offering tax rises or spending cuts could forget about getting our votes. So isn't blaming politicians a bit easy - what's the old saying about getting the politicians you deserve?

That's one of our subjects tonight - the "blame game" and accepting personal responsibility. Send us your thoughts on it by posting a comment in the comment box below.

 

[Latrade]

Looks like Pat Kenny may read AAM. [broken link removed].

After the last few weeks of comments on Pat's house and lifestyle, while I agree with him on what he says, does he really want to open this can of worms?

 

[MANTO]

I took my mothers advice..."Don't buy what you cannot afford".

Now, I could have been like many others and went to the banks during the boom, got a rediculously high mortgage and think i could sustain it for the next 30 - 40 years....

People made their own decisions, i accept there are genuine cases but i dont think they outweight the number who just spent spent spent.....

I could have booked 3 holidays a year on my credit card...but i made the decision not too so why should those who did get bailed out...all they want to do is take take take.....I DONT THINK SO!

 

[truthseeker]

Received my local credit union yearly booklet yesterday, the one that shows the accounts and balances etc...

They had one page where they showed what loans were for, grouped by category. Quite high up on the list was the category 'House Deposits', followed by 'Weddings', 'Holidays', and one of the last items was 'Car Insurance'.

Now people are entitled to borrow for whatever they like, but seriously, borrowing for a wedding? A holiday? Borrowing for car insurance!?!?!
And I thought it wasnt even pc to borrow for a House Deposit!!

 

[RMCF]

Watched The Frontline last night and I think the bit that goes to the audience and when we are all meant to feel sorry for people takes the biscuit.

OK there are some genuine cases where people get into trouble and can't afford to even pay small mortgages, but the first guy who spoke seemed to be looking for us all to cry for him.

He was 24 and had a €695,000 mortgage !!!

Bought his first house when he was 19 with his girlfriend but appeared to have moved up in the housing market at least once. He said he was working 75hrs a week to sustain it all and was doing well. Now his monthly mortgage repayments are €3,500.

I'm 41 and me and my wife have good jobs, but I would never ever take a mortgage for half of what he did. Madness. He obviously did not think for 1sec before signing up to debt of that magnitude. Did he not sit and do the maths if work ever dried up a bit? If there was a bit of a downturn?

We can't all feel sorry for people who took incredibly stupid decisions.

 

[Ceist Beag]

Watched The Frontline last night and I think the bit that goes to the audience and when we are all meant to feel sorry for people takes the biscuit.

OK there are some genuine cases where people get into trouble and can't afford to even pay small mortgages, but the first guy who spoke seemed to be looking for us all to cry for him.

He was 24 and had a €695,000 mortgage !!!

Bought his first house when he was 19 with his girlfriend but appeared to have moved up in the housing market at least once. He said he was working 75hrs a week to sustain it all and was doing well. Now his monthly mortgage repayments are €3,500.

I'm 41 and me and my wife have good jobs, but I would never ever take a mortgage for half of what he did. Madness. He obviously did not think for 1sec before signing up to debt of that magnitude. Did he not sit and do the maths if work ever dried up a bit? If there was a bit of a downturn?

We can't all feel sorry for people who took incredibly stupid decisions.

+1
There was a time when young people spent years renting and squirreled away a deposit for a house before taking the leap. This young fella summed up perfectly where the country lost the run of itself in the past decade.

 

[RMCF]

Thing is, there are thousands like him. In debt to their eyeballs and I wouldn't be surprised if he had 4 credit cards too, which he didn't mention last night.

Someone on the show last night called him an entrepeneur - I don't really think you could describe him as this. To supplement his income (can't remember what he did as main job) he was DJ'ing 3 nights a week for God's sake !! Yeah, like that will take him on to the Dragon's Den.

Many people could have taken out big loans or big mortgages like him, as the banks were throwing money at us all. But the sensible people said 'no, I don't need it/want it/can afford it'.

 

[galleyslave]

I've been reading this with interest. My opinion is that theres no single point of responsibility. The banks had responsibility of fiscal prudence - they failed miserably. The consumer had a responsibility to be prudent in their financial decisions and failed miserably. The govt. had a responsibility to oversee and regulate and manage and failed miserably. We all have to take some blame for this mess. Bank lending sums it up for me - obscene sums loaned to unsuitable consumers. Consumers lapping up credit with total disregard for the possible consequences and govt. sitting on its This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language delighted with the tax take and doing nothing to rein it in

 

[liaconn]

I only saw the very start of Frontline but I agree that some people were leaping onto the property ladder far too early. It actually got to the stage where anyone who didn't own their own place by their mid twenties was sneered at by some people. Programmes like 'I'm an adult, get me out of here' didn't help. The whole premise seemed to be that anyone still living at home in their early twenties was a sad failure. I think it was this kind of stuff that made a lot of people start panicing and looking for mortgages long before they were in a secure enough position to afford them.

 

[MANTO]

I thought it was just me when that bloke went on about his €695,000 mortgage and monthly repayments - i struggled to see what point he was trying to make.....

The only point i could see was, he was an idiot to get into that kind of debt and what response was he looking for?

+1 on the credit cards....People are crying they cannot pay their mortgages..but failing to mention its partially because they ran up hugh credit card debts also..