OT rants about teachers, guards and other public servants

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Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

Sunny said:
Your generalisations are not doing your argument any favours. Let me guess, you 'know' a guard who gets paid to go off and play GAA.
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I know a full team of guards who only turn up for training/a match (soccer) when they're ON duty.
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

Protocol said:
Teachers start on the third point of the scale.

41k is their starting wage, so 45k at age 25 is possible.

My father retired aged 62 on 72k, very common. His pension is 35-35k approx, or nearly 700 pw. Also very common.
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What is the point of the first two points on the scale?

If the scale only goes up to €63,000, how is it very common for people to retire on 72K?. Was he a school Principal?

Also, even if a teacher does start on the third point, unless they began teaching at 19 they couldn't be on €45,000 at age 25.
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

wretched people. totally useless individuals
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

liaconn
once they reach the end of the scale they start to get long term sevice increments. so they keep on getting extra every year even after hitting the top of the scale!!!
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

why do guards get time off for soccer? thought it was only gaa. thats some perk
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

I'm lost, how much do teachers get paid?
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

How common is this spursman - you'd sweat that no guards do any work at all - you are generalising again. When did the debate get down to public v private? What ever your views on the public service the government employed them, the various ministers approved the employments so who is to blame? If the government want to cut the wage bill they should start with the people at the top on the big money - why is this so difficult for them to do? They should cut the number of TD's & Senators & councillors for a start. I really think people miss the point when debate turns into public v private - many people in the public & private areas do not earn massive money.
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

tlc - i dont know if only one guard is doing this. my taxes pay his salary so one person doing it is too much. dont you understand this? lots and lots of guards do this , not just one as you can see from other peoples posts.

you say that many people in the public sector do not earn massive money - thats correct but the public sector needs to be bench marked against the public sector in other comparable european countries, not against the private sectory

wages in the private sector are supposed to be higher than the public sector, the perks in the private sector are supposed to be better than the public sector. the private sector should be the place of choice to work for irish people but its the opposite here, everyone wants a governement job.

people wanting to work in the private sector is what drives capitalism , the way we are going we may as well be a communist state.

people here seem to have a huge problem understand this fact. if people want to leave the private sector for a cushy job with a good pension in the public sector then they should have to take a massive pay cut
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

You are talking absolute rubbish - a public service is a necessary part of any civilised society. The private sector will not attend accidents, treat illness or teach our children. Not everyone in the public sector have "perks" - cleaning up after a car accident etc. is not a perk I would look for. The private sector of course drives the economy - they are also part of a civilised society. The private sector has shown that it needs to be regulated to a high degree. The mess we are in now is due in no small part to the fact that they were more or less given free reign by governments - it didn't work! The point I am making is that the government ministers responsible for employing the large public sector in the first place seem to be bearing no responsiblility what so ever. The deflection of baiting the public & private sectors against each other is a smoke screen which the policticians are only to happy to keep going.
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

Absolute nonsense Spursman , what caused the depth of our recession - Developers funded by greedy Banks aided by light handed regulation.
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

Deiseblue - couldn't agree more! I would also add the government they allowed these excesses to continue - driving up property prices which meant that ordinary people are now saddled with 35 & 40 mortgages & in negative equity, lower take home pay (for everybody I might add) and a massive cut in services. We are all going to have to take the pain but I would repeat again a huge point in my view - cuts should begin at the top not at the bottom - TD's should be the first to take cuts as an example to all if they want to have any regard at all from the public.
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

liaconn said:
What is the point of the first two points on the scale?

Good question. Custom and practice. Maybe used if you didn't have appropriate qualifications.

If the scale only goes up to €63,000, how is it very common for people to retire on 72K?. Was he a school Principal?

Bear in mind that all teachers get basic + degree allowance + HDip allowance. He also got an A-Post allowance of maybe 5-6k as he was in charge of exams.

Also, even if a teacher does start on the third point, unless they began teaching at 19 they couldn't be on €45,000 at age 25.

That 41k basic is made up of point 3 + honours degree allowance + honours HDipEd allowance.
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Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

Here is some data.

Points on Scale
From 01/09/2008
1. 32,599
2. 33,753
3. 34,909
4. 36,068
5. 37,865
6. 39,030
7. 40,193
8. 43,124
9. 44,588
10. 46,337
11. 48,078
12. 49,831
13. 51,297
14. 53,239
15. 53,239
16. 53,239
17. 55,916
18. 55,916
19. 55,916
20. 55,916
21. 59,453
22. 59,453
23. 59,453
24. 59,453
25. 63,361

Plus the allowances:

1.

(a)
(i)H. Dip in Ed. (Pass) 622
(ii)Higher Froebel Certificate 622

(b)
(i)H.Dop in Ed. (1st or @nd Hons) 1,301
(ii)Ard Teastas Gaeilge 1,301

(c) Primary Degree (Pass) 1,939

(d)Masters Degree by thesis or exam (Pass) 5,177

(e)Primary Degree (1st or 2nd Hons) 5,177
(f) Master Degree (1st or 2nd Hons) 5,785
(g) Doctors Degree 6,463

Either of the allowances (a) or (b) may be held together with any one of the allowances (c) to (g).
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

So a starting teacher with an honours degree and an honours HDip gets:

34,909 + 5177 + 1301 = 41,387
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

The same teacher at retirement gets

63,361 + 5177 + 1301 + LSI of 2446 = 72,285


which leads to a lump-sum of 108k and an annual pension of 36k, assuming 40 yrs paid contributions.
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

PS I'm not necessarily complaining about these wage rates.

They do help attract good teachers.

But they need to work more for their money, e.g. parent-teacher meetings, longer school year, etc.
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

deiseblue - yes bankers and developes have caused the pain but they also fed and fuelled the boom. it was the money the banks printed and handed out freely that led to the huge pay rises the public sector received through bench marking. the banking sector is now retrenching , credit has pulled back so now public sector pay has to go back to where it came from.
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

spursman said:
liaconn
once they reach the end of the scale they start to get long term sevice increments. so they keep on getting extra every year even after hitting the top of the scale!!!
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They get a long service increment every single year as soon as they hit the top of the scale?? I may be wrong, but that sounds very strange to me.
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

So Sprursman, I think you've just proved the point I was trying to make - the public service did not cause this problem. It may do no good to point the finger at the people who caused this hole we are all in, but it is a necessary begining to the recovery,otherwise the same thing can happen again - accountability begins at the top!
 
Re: 10 things that dont make sense about the McCarthy Report.

spursman said:
tlc - the private sector should be the place of choice to work for irish people but its the opposite here, everyone wants a governement job.

They do now. A few years ago people were turning their noses up at many public sector jobs and laughing at us for not being out earning mega bucks somewhere.



if people want to leave the private sector for a cushy job with a good pension in the public sector then they should have to take a massive pay cut


Another sweeping generalisation
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