balancing the needs of your children and your job.

[ney001]

Well MandaC obviously our thinking is wrong here - maybe we will change and you know start taking loads of time off, talking about babies, boring everybody to tears with our photos of babies and looking down on those that don't have children - Can't frickin wait to change!

 

[BONDGIRL]

At last I can post

What have I started LOL!

Just a few points...

Purple - about priorities - I will ALWAYS put my child ahead of my job. By what I mean from that is, if my child is sick and I can't have another loving family member mind them, I am gone, out of work in a flash... I mean my job would have to come 2nd most of the time. But I know your point is finding balance really!

MandyC - I agree that would probably wreck your head everyone talking 24-7 about their kids, but its a simply fact of life, their world is probably their kids now and until you have kids yourself, you cant really made judgements on it! I dont talk about my son all the time, but I probably would about 10times a day mention him or a little funny story! I am probably wrecking their heads!!! ah well I love telling them!

ney001 - I USED TO think like you. I thought NEVER in a million years woudl I stay at home with a child. my Career is my life blah blah blah. Child will be fine in creche 10 hours a day blah blah blah... But by god did my world change when I started bonding with my child and now I am hoping to get out of work and be with him full time, my career will be put on hold, not sure when its going to happen, at the minute we are not in a position but I am hoping for this...!! So you cant say NEVER, until you are there.. However I give 100% to my job when I am here now and I plan with them like I will be here long term but god it would be super to be with him all day.. job Satisfaction from that - well I cant put a figure on it!!!

Bren1916 - I ALSO take ANNUAL LEAVE When my child is sick. I dont not take the mickey and ring in sick myself........ So it doesnt leave ANY days for "ME" like those with no kids get... my days are for him.. (god I am a wonderful mother LOL)!!!!!

But its a great decision and one that I am sure we will argue over a lot...

But having a child has made my life complete in so many ways I cant describe. I hope all posters have that gift someday in their life

xxx

 

[ney001]

.. But by god did my world change when I started bonding with my child and now I am hoping to get out of work and be with him full time, my career will be put on hold, not sure when its going to happen, at the minute we are not in a position but I am hoping for this...!! So you cant say NEVER, until you are there..

Welcome to depths bondgirl - yup this argument pretty much sums up the attitude of every parent when talking to me!

My point is I guess that the bond doesn't always happen and isn't always as strong as the bond others might fell to their child! . I might well go gaga over the baby and I might not - the point is don't assume that everything changes for every woman once they have a baby, some don't feel that need to be at home 24/7 and some like me don't believe that it would be particularly beneficial for mother or child to have me there all the time!

It's the assumption that you will automatically love it combined with the patronising tone of my colleagues that gets me!

 

[Latrade]

Perhaps the answer is bring back child labour. Hear me out.

1. No creche fees.

2. no need for employees to be absent from work and can free up relatives to also work

3. they'd get paid so we can drop the welfare payments as the child's wage would cancel this out.

4. greater productivity for industry, no need to wait for maintenance to fix or repair things, the kids only have little hands so they can reach into even the most awkward place to clear blockages etc.

5. They'd get fed, so again saving on disposable income and household bills, plus they'd get fed gruel which is nutritious and we'd also solve the obesity problem.

6. They'd be active (see above re obesity problem). Less obesity, less health care costs.

7. More in employment, more PRSI

8. More kids with money, more spending in shops, retail confidence improves, VAT improves. Plus kids will want high end fancy goods like Playstations etc.

9. They'll do a good day's work so will be knackered at night. Less parents late/absent because the kid kept them awake all night.

Makes sense all round.

 

[liaconn]

At last I can post

What have I started LOL!

Just a few points...

Purple - about priorities - I will ALWAYS put my child ahead of my job. By what I mean from that is, if my child is sick and I can't have another loving family member mind them, I am gone, out of work in a flash... I mean my job would have to come 2nd most of the time. But I know your point is finding balance really!

MandyC - I agree that would probably wreck your head everyone talking 24-7 about their kids, but its a simply fact of life, their world is probably their kids now and until you have kids yourself, you cant really made judgements on it! I dont talk about my son all the time, but I probably would about 10times a day mention him or a little funny story! I am probably wrecking their heads!!! ah well I love telling them!

ney001 - I USED TO think like you. I thought NEVER in a million years woudl I stay at home with a child. my Career is my life blah blah blah. Child will be fine in creche 10 hours a day blah blah blah... But by god did my world change when I started bonding with my child and now I am hoping to get out of work and be with him full time, my career will be put on hold, not sure when its going to happen, at the minute we are not in a position but I am hoping for this...!! So you cant say NEVER, until you are there.. However I give 100% to my job when I am here now and I plan with them like I will be here long term but god it would be super to be with him all day.. job Satisfaction from that - well I cant put a figure on it!!!

Bren1916 - I ALSO take ANNUAL LEAVE When my child is sick. I dont not take the mickey and ring in sick myself........ So it doesnt leave ANY days for "ME" like those with no kids get... my days are for him.. (god I am a wonderful mother LOL)!!!!!

But its a great decision and one that I am sure we will argue over a lot...

But having a child has made my life complete in so many ways I cant describe. I hope all posters have that gift someday in their life

xxx

Well, I hope none of your colleagues can't have children, for whatever reason. I can't imagine you make them feel any better by saying things like 'my life is complete now' or 'I don't get to take any annual leave for 'me' like people without kids do', or taking the view that because your world is your kids then its okay to talk about them all the time even if people don't want to listen.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but a bit of tact and sensitivity in the workplace is also necessary.

 

[MandaC]

At last I can post

What have I started LOL!

Just a few points...


MandyC - I agree that would probably wreck your head everyone talking 24-7 about their kids, but its a simply fact of life, their world is probably their kids now and until you have kids yourself, you cant really made judgements on it! I dont talk about my son all the time, but I probably would about 10times a day mention him or a little funny story! I am probably wrecking their heads!!! ah well I love telling them!


xxx

Just another point that people d'ont always bear in mind........not everybody wants/can have children.

Sometimes comments along the lines of ....when you have children....whats keeping you, etc, are putting pressure on people who already have issues....but thats a separate topic.....

Good debate though

 

[ney001]

Well, I hope none of your colleagues can't have children, for whatever reason. I can't imagine you make them feel any better by saying things like 'my life is complete now' or 'I don't get to take any annual leave for 'me' like people without kids do', or taking the view that because your world is your kids then its okay to talk about them all the time even if people don't want to listen.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but a bit of tact and sensitivity in the workplace is also necessary.

Yep, don't forget the 'career is my life blah blah blah and my child will be fine in a creche for 10 hours blah blah blah comments! -

All a little patronising but I do get that a lot from the mammys!

LARTRADE - You are a genius!

 

[Purple]

AtPurple - about priorities - I will ALWAYS put my child ahead of my job. By what I mean from that is, if my child is sick and I can't have another loving family member mind them, I am gone, out of work in a flash... I mean my job would have to come 2nd most of the time. But I know your point is finding balance really!

I see no problem with that. I would see a problem if you expected the same career prospects as people who do not have children or do not put their job second most of the time.

 

[becky]

Well, I hope none of your colleagues can't have children, for whatever reason. I can't imagine you make them feel any better by saying things like 'my life is complete now' or 'I don't get to take any annual leave for 'me' like people without kids do', or taking the view that because your world is your kids then its okay to talk about them all the time even if people don't want to listen.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but a bit of tact and sensitivity in the workplace is also necessary.

I agree. A friend of mine had a baby recently and talks about nothing else. Everyone remarks about it. I honestly don't care how he slept last night but I'm told none the less.

Another friend got over cancer in her late 30's and had to have her womb removed as part of the treatment.

One night we were all out and the girl with the baby talked all night about the baby giving us progress reports from the babysitter. No amount of hints, trying to change the subject stopped her despite the obvious discomfort of my other friend.

 

[Mel]

Well MandaC obviously our thinking is wrong here - maybe we will change and you know start taking loads of time off, talking about babies, boring everybody to tears with our photos of babies and looking down on those that don't have children - Can't frickin wait to change!

Don't know about looking down on other people, but I could put money on it that you will both do the talking and photos.

As for taking time off - it's like anything - some people will see it as a great excuse to get out of the office, some people will carry on as ever.
I doubt if anyone's attitude to their career has ever done a complete U-turn because they suddenly have kids.

 

[Latrade]

I agree. A friend of mine had a baby recently and talks about nothing else. Everyone remarks about it. I honestly don't care how he slept last night but I'm told none the less.

As someone who generally feels misanthropists aren't extreme enough, I do have to say that really it doesn't bother me. I mean sure I have no interest whatsoever in looking at another picture they've taken on their mobile phone or graphic descriptions of nappy contents, but c'mon they've just a had a kid...a bit of leeway on the old being slightly proud/anamoured.

Heck, I still go on about Liverpool winning the champions league in 2005, my only contribution to that was getting very drunk and texting every single Man United Fan/Evertonian I had ever come across.

While it can be an annoyance and yes occasionally insensitive, I don't think it's that bad. How are they to know an individual can't have kids or doesn't want kids? Are we seriously suggesting we should curb talking about a child for fear of offending someone? Is that how far we've come?

 

[Mel]

I see no problem with that. I would see a problem if you expected the same career prospects as people who do not have children or do not put their job second most of the time.

What about the balance though? You're assuming that the person who leaves to take care of their kids is putting the job second. Surely your job is there to fund your life, 'work to live', and what can't be done today can be done tomorrow? Maybe I'm lucky to work in a great place where the work-life balance is 100% respected, with the expectation that you are responsible for your own working week, make sure you clock up 39 billable hours and after that you do them on a schedule that pretty much suits you. If that means that I'm at home while my child is sick, it doesn't mean I can't have the laptop out at the same time and get the work completed. Or that I can't stay on later the following day to get the work finished.
Or delegate to someone else but remain contactable for any questions.

We have the understanding that emergencies happen for everyone, they can't be planned for, that's why they are called emergenices. Colleagues show concern if a child/parent/dog is unwell or worse, and fingers are never pointed, rather the team pulls together to get over the hump.

I could probably pawn a sick child off on someone else, but what would that achieve? Sit miserably in the office, worrying and only half-concentrating on the job? Far better to deal with the situation and come back ready to do 100%.

Purple, I tend to agree with a lot of your posts, and like some of your attitude to life, the self-reliance and responsibility, but I'd hate to work for you! Not because I'm lazy, far from it, but because everyone needs balance in their life.

 

[Purple]

What about the balance though? You're assuming that the person who leaves to take care of their kids is putting the job second. Surely your job is there to fund your life, 'work to live', and what can't be done today can be done tomorrow? Maybe I'm lucky to work in a great place where the work-life balance is 100% respected, with the expectation that you are responsible for your own working week, make sure you clock up 39 billable hours and after that you do them on a schedule that pretty much suits you. If that means that I'm at home while my child is sick, it doesn't mean I can't have the laptop out at the same time and get the work completed. Or that I can't stay on later the following day to get the work finished.
Or delegate to someone else but remain contactable for any questions.

We have the understanding that emergencies happen for everyone, they can't be planned for, that's why they are called emergenices. Colleagues show concern if a child/parent/dog is unwell or worse, and fingers are never pointed, rather the team pulls together to get over the hump.

I could probably pawn a sick child off on someone else, but what would that achieve? Sit miserably in the office, worrying and only half-concentrating on the job? Far better to deal with the situation and come back ready to do 100%.

I don't disgaree with any of what you are saying but you are still getting the job done, not dropping everything because a child is sick. I also agree that a team should not be clock-watching when it comes to what others are doing.

 

[liaconn]

As someone who generally feels misanthropists aren't extreme enough, I do have to say that really it doesn't bother me. I mean sure I have no interest whatsoever in looking at another picture they've taken on their mobile phone or graphic descriptions of nappy contents, but c'mon they've just a had a kid...a bit of leeway on the old being slightly proud/anamoured.

Heck, I still go on about Liverpool winning the champions league in 2005, my only contribution to that was getting very drunk and texting every single Man United Fan/Evertonian I had ever come across.

While it can be an annoyance and yes occasionally insensitive, I don't think it's that bad. How are they to know an individual can't have kids or doesn't want kids? Are we seriously suggesting we should curb talking about a child for fear of offending someone? Is that how far we've come?

We're not talking about people showing the odd photograph of their child or chatting about them for ten minutes or so, we're talking about people making insensitive remarks like 'your life isn't complete until you've had kids' in front of people who don't have children,or going on and on about parenthood in front of groups of colleagues whose history they don't know. A bit of cop on and tact basically. There's a difference between 'not having any interest in kids' and yearning for a child and not being able to have one. I had thought people had become much more sensitive to that in recent years due to the amount of publicity this issue has got, but maybe not.

 

[ney001]

We're not talking about people showing the odd photograph of their child or chatting about them for ten minutes or so, we're talking about people making insensitive remarks like 'your life isn't complete until you've had kids' in front of people who don't have children,or going on and on about parenthood in front of groups of colleagues whose history they don't know. A bit of cop on and tact basically. There's a difference between 'not having any interest in kids' and yearning for a child and not being able to have one. I had thought people had become much more sensitive to that in recent years due to the amount of publicity this issue has got, but maybe not.

For me I have to say I don't think you should have to shut up about your child for sensitivity reasons I think you should shut up about your child cos it's boring! As a rule of thumb the only people who don't find your child boring are you and your other half - stick to this and the workplace shall be a happier environment for all!

 

[BONDGIRL]

It's the assumption that you will automatically love it combined with the patronising tone of my colleagues that gets me!

I totally agree with you! No ONe has the right to assume anything in this life, sure I thought when I started trying for a child it would happen over night, it didnt it was a long hard road for us...

I am useless at housework etc so I never ever dreamt I would like being in a house all day, but its about being with him, maybe when the terrible twos come I will have to take this all back up and swallow it!!!

 

[Mel]

I don't disgaree with any of what you are saying but you are still getting the job done, not dropping everything because a child is sick.

Maybe that's the difference.
But it's a personal trait in an employee, it's not defined by whether or not you are a 'working mother'. The balance can be difficult; I suppose it still comes to the same conclusion; If I did down tools and swan off without a care, then I couldn't expect a promotion, but I don't so I'd be fairly upset if I was passed over because I occasionally need time to deal with family stuff.

 

[BONDGIRL]

4. greater productivity for industry, no need to wait for maintenance to fix or repair things, the kids only have little hands so they can reach into even the most awkward place to clear blockages etc.
.

Ha Ha you are joking right!

 

[liaconn]

For me I have to say I don't think you should have to shut up about your child for sensitivity reasons I think you should shut up about your child cos it's boring! As a rule of thumb the only people who don't find your child boring are you and your other half - stick to this and the workplace shall be a happier environment for all!

Ah come on. Say what you really think, Ney.

 

[BONDGIRL]

Liaconn - WHEN DID I SAY I TELL MY FELLOW EMPLOYEES THAT MY WORLD IS NOW COMPELTE........?
You dont know a thing about me... I am talking to people here on this forum, telling them how I feel? I was trying for yrs for a child, went through yrs of treatment to have him... I was in agony day in and day out thinking I could never have a child.. So you do sound VERY harsh, because you are simply making judgements about what I say to my fellow employees............ I deserve happiness and I deserve to say how I feel on this forum. I would NEVER in my wildest dreams say to any woman or man this and that unless they asked my opinion. You are going WAY off the subject here and I dont appreciate it.