What do other people feel about claims that the leaving cert has been dumbed down in recent years. I've just read an article in the Irish Times saying that last year 75% of pupils achieved an A, B or C in English in the leaving cert. I remember when I was leaving school As were practically impossible to achieve, Bs were considered absolutely brilliang and Cs were a very, very respectable result. Nowadays, As and Bs seem to be very achieveable and a lot of kids seem to be very disappointed with a C. Also, a lot of my friends claim that their kids are doing absolutely no work for their exams and, when you nervously enquire about how they did, they seem to have done great. Not sure if its because the exams are easier, or teaching methods have improved.
Leaving Cert - has it been dumbed down?
- Thread starter liaconn
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BeanPole
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Doubt teaching methods have improved - where is the incentive for teachers to raise thier game?
We have the highest paid teachers, on an hourly basis, of any country in the world, and that is before their "entitlement" to more than 30 days annual sick pay is taken into account.
With teaching standards like that, no wonder the country is stuffed
We have the highest paid teachers, on an hourly basis, of any country in the world, and that is before their "entitlement" to more than 30 days annual sick pay is taken into account.
With teaching standards like that, no wonder the country is stuffed
I have wondered this too.
There was a lad in my class who got an A in honours english (LC 1987) which was a hard one to crack.
He actually got 9 A's (he did art and home economics as extra) so he was an exceptional student.
No grinds or saturday classes either.
There was a lad in my class who got an A in honours english (LC 1987) which was a hard one to crack.
He actually got 9 A's (he did art and home economics as extra) so he was an exceptional student.
No grinds or saturday classes either.
Has been dumbed down big time. Look at the data for the % As, Bs etc, from current times and compare it with 10 or 20 years ago and you'll see a huge rise in high grades.
Those within the education profession would also tell you that the syllabus has been dumbed down a lot - we're now making the mistakes that other countries did 10-20 years ago and have since discovered the error of their ways e.g. "it doesnt matter if the child cant spell or count.....its all about them expressing themselves" and "there's no such thing as a wrong answer."
Those within the education profession would also tell you that the syllabus has been dumbed down a lot - we're now making the mistakes that other countries did 10-20 years ago and have since discovered the error of their ways e.g. "it doesnt matter if the child cant spell or count.....its all about them expressing themselves" and "there's no such thing as a wrong answer."
One of the reasons this interests me is that, in the Civil Service, no matter how long its been since you left school or how many qualifications you have achieved since, you still have to give your leaving cert results on any application form for promotion. I assume most interview boards don't take these into account, but it is still annoying for older applicants to feel their results are being compared with applicants who sat a much easier exam (if that is the case).
I never knew that!! Does the format date back to the times when post Leaving Cert you either entered the CS or went to Uni?Sounds to me more like they are exaggerating their kids' intelligence by claiming they have done little study and yet have achieved highly. To get back to your question, I don't believe the standards have lessened. The intensity at which the students are now studying has increased, and this together with all the grinds and extra tuition etc., they are achieving all these high grades.
I think we like to think that it has been dumbed down as it gives a sense of coming from tougher times. Times change and so has the outlook for teens. Now college is seen as a certainty whereas before it was for those who were avoiding real work or the real world. The emphasis on a more rounded education is there now. The hours haven't lessoned so I doubt the ability of students has diminished either.
I'm not sure but, believe me, it drives people nuts. You could have done three degrees since you left school and have twenty years work experience, but they still want to know whether you got a C or a D in geography back in 19 whatever. It's ridiculous.
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Yorrick
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The emphasis on getting points for the CAO has changed the attitude to the Leaving Cert. The grind schools set the trend and now teachers do a forensic job on all L.C. papers. Any teacher worth his/her salt will be able to identify the most likely areas where questions will be sourced. Comparison over the years throw up the same questions.
There was a time when there were jobs available for L.C. students without having to go to college but that day is gone. I know a number of people who got starts in solicitors offices, auctioneers etc on the strenght of L.C. results but that doesn't happen anymore
There was a time when there were jobs available for L.C. students without having to go to college but that day is gone. I know a number of people who got starts in solicitors offices, auctioneers etc on the strenght of L.C. results but that doesn't happen anymore
Well done, bash the teachers again. Does anyone realise that we have one of the best educational systems in the world. Teachers should be paid more!! As for sick leave, 30 days is'nt enough when you have to deal with some of the little darlings that go to school these days.
This is another go at the public sector which seems to be prevalent on aam at the moment!!
I was recently interested in a job in the Financial Regulator and couldn't believe how exam focused the application form was. I just couldn't have been bothered to find out what grade I got in French for my LC or what mark I got in Statistics in my final year of Uni. I can see why it must drive people in the civil service insane. There are plenty of people with average educational record who shine in the workplace. I wonder do these people get recognised when the focus is so much on some stupid exam from years ago.
Duke of Marmalade
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Year on year this dumbing down is not obvious. This year 143 got 600 points compared to 216 last year despite more people sitting the exam.
You want dumbing down, look at the North. There is a 12% chance of getting straight As in the NI A-levels compared to a 1/4% chance of 600 points down here. No wonder Trinity Med is awash with Northern A-level students.
You want dumbing down, look at the North. There is a 12% chance of getting straight As in the NI A-levels compared to a 1/4% chance of 600 points down here. No wonder Trinity Med is awash with Northern A-level students.
Year on year this dumbing down is not obvious. This year 143 got 600 points compared to 216 last year despite more people sitting the exam.
You want dumbing down, look at the North. There is a 12% chance of getting straight As in the NI A-levels compared to a 1/4% chance of 600 points down here. No wonder Trinity Med is awash with Northern A-level students.
Yes, but I wonder if you compared results this year with results from 15 or 20 years ago would there be a marked difference? I suspect there would.
I was listening to a LC student on the Last Word this evening discussing Maths. She said that there was a gradual dumbing down of maths since around 2001. The students now aren't studying more - most of us put our time in at the books at exam times. There were very few dossers in my class in the '80's
If you look at the grade inflation link above you'll see that there is.
But we're not saying students' abilities have changed. We're saying that they're getting more As and Bs than students got years ago, therefore could the exams be getting easier? It can hardly be that students years ago, when it was much harder to get to stay on at school for your leaving cert, were less bright or hard working.