Very bad behaviour at Mass for First Holy Communion.

[Complainer]

I think the main point is they are given an option. If the parents dont want your children to take part its entirely up to them.

Many parents (me included) will be left wondering if there any other implications for how their children will be treated for their remaining five years in that school if they opt-out.

Making it an opt-in process would remove some of these doubts by removing the expectation of participation.

 

[Padraigb]

Many parents (me included) will be left wondering if there any other implications for how their children will be treated for their remaining five years in that school if they opt-out...

They can expect to be treated like all the other children, and to suggest otherwise is unfair.

 

[bullbars]

So it is an 'opt-out' process. Why not go for 'opt-in', and let those who choose to participate do so.

Check out the enrollment policy of any parish school. Priority is given to children of that religion. If the school is over-subscribed, thouse who are not baptised won't get it. This kind of religious discrimination is enshrined in law.

The choice of multi-denominational is not a simple one. There is none in my area. Choosing this school (which of course has a waiting list) would mean a 4-mile car commute each day, instead of a 1-mile bike/walk commute. It is not a simple option.

1. I think the main point is that is entirely the parents choice. Opt-in or Opt-out, either way they have a choice.

2. Its the "Parish School", of course priority should be given. If you dont want your children to go to a catholic school you dont send them there.

3. You had the Baptism out of convenience but you want nothing to do with the Religion itself. Plenty of people travel a lot further to school.

 

[liaconn]

Many parents (me included) will be left wondering if there any other implications for how their children will be treated for their remaining five years in that school if they opt-out.

Making it an opt-in process would remove some of these doubts by removing the expectation of participation.

How on earth do you think they're going to be treated? Do you really think all their teachers up the line to sixth class are going to hold it against them because their parents said they didn't want them making their Communion? If the teachers aren't religious themselves, they won't care. If they are religious they will be glad that you showed enough respect for the sacrament not to take part in it meaninglessly.

 

[bullbars]

Many parents (me included) will be left wondering if there any other implications for how their children will be treated for their remaining five years in that school if they opt-out.

Making it an opt-in process would remove some of these doubts by removing the expectation of participation.

Rubbish. To suspect that they will be persecuted in some way is a ridiculous statement to make. Is that what you teach them; just join in, in case you stand out?

 

[TarfHead]

Many parents (me included) will be left wondering if there any other implications for how their children will be treated for their remaining five years in that school if they opt-out..

Another sweeping generalisation

 

[gabsdot]

Some of the kids in our school made the FHC last saturday. It's a Educate together school so they children have had religion classes after school since sept to prepare.
I popped into the church and saw about the last 10 minutes of it and the thing I thought was odd was that the congregation kept applauding after the priest said anything. I don't think that's very conducive to a quiet reverent atmosphere. Just my opinion.
I'm not catholic BTW

 

[Complainer]

They can expect to be treated like all the other children, and to suggest otherwise is unfair.

1. I think the main point is that is entirely the parents choice. Opt-in or Opt-out, either way they have a choice.

2. Its the "Parish School", of course priority should be given. If you dont want your children to go to a catholic school you dont send them there.

3. You had the Baptism out of convenience but you want nothing to do with the Religion itself. Plenty of people travel a lot further to school.

How on earth do you think they're going to be treated? Do you really think all their teachers up the line to sixth class are going to hold it against them because their parents said they didn't want them making their Communion? If the teachers aren't religious themselves, they won't care. If they are religious they will be glad that you showed enough respect for the sacrament not to take part in it meaninglessly.

Rubbish. To suspect that they will be persecuted in some way is a ridiculous statement to make. Is that what you teach them; just join in, in case you stand out?

Some interesting comments in there.

1) Of course the teachers will be religious themselves. They wouldn't get the job if they weren't, because the school can legally discriminate on grounds of religion again. Such discrimination would of course be illegal for other employers.

2) These posts seem to suggest that religion is not part of the core classroom activities. This is not the case. Religion (and specifically Catholic religion) will be covered daily in the classroom, and is intrinsincally linked with extra-curricular activities, such as the school choir. How are the non-Catholic or non-practicing children to be treated in this scenario.

3) It is interesting to note the 'if you don't like it, you can lump it' response. I wonder how these posters would respond if (or when) the boot is on the other foot, and the state finally realises that religion has no place in a state-funded service?

Why should the state pay the salaries of teachers, where teachers and children are explicitly discriminated against on grounds of their religion. Why should parents be forced to drag their children out of their locality and community, away from their friends and neighbours simply to avoid being effectively forced to participate in religious charades (as indicated by the opening post in this thread)?

 

[truthseeker]

On baptisms, my bosses children were refused access to the local school because his children werent baptised Catholics.

Its commonly accepted that the church has a hand in school policies. I disagree that if you dont want your child to go to a catholic school then dont send them there - many people have no other choice.
It would be different if it were a private school, but state run schools should not discriminate on the basis of religion and they do.

 

[MandaC]

Re: Holy Communion/Behaviour in Mass

Thats weird because its Sacrament of Marriage yet i go to weddings

Not once were the words sacrament of marriage used during the cermony at my own "wedding". Also the civil part is done after all the religious cermony is finished and tyhe majority of the paperwork is filled in before the weddings.

christening is a term used within my family as well and i think its rather sad to look down on other posters because they don't use the same words and terms as you.

Always called it a Christening in our family and (extended family) and have to say, nothing "Shameless" about me or anyone in my family whatsover. Very odd way of thinking? My Grandmother (god rest her) loved family Christenings and never went into a pub in her life.

 

[Padraigb]

... It would be different if it were a private school, but state run schools should not discriminate on the basis of religion and they do.

Primary schools in Ireland are private schools. Most of them are church-owned (Catholic and various other churches). They receive financial assistance from the state, a right given under Article 44 of the Constitution.

 

[Purple]

I’m not religious at all, I don’t believe in God, but the majority of the population is Catholic (if most of them are only so in name). Therefore I don’t have a huge problem with religion being thought in schools. I would prefer if schools were non-religious (with a Sunday school type set-up for those who want it). I think a civics class would be better so that our children have a sense of what it means to be a citizen and the rights and responsibilities which flow from that. That said I think the suggestion that teachers would discriminate against children because they don’t participate in religion classes is absurd.
This country has a Christian heritage and I for one am glad that is the case as Christianity has given the world far more positives than negatives (even if all religions are just different brands of crazy to me ).

On the OP’s first post; people should have the basic manners and social decorum to know how to behave in a church (or any other situation where proceedings are important to those around them).

 

[Romulan]

I have another little relative making their Communion later in May, it will be interesting to see how it goes.....maybe the priest should send an instruction manual to the parents for distribution to all attending

 

[jasconius]

Friend of mine in Dublin was getting her hair done recently and noticed a young girl getting her hair put up.
She asked her ' are you making your first communion tomorrow?'
'No' said the mother ' this is only a rehearsal to see how she looks!'

 

[Complainer]

Primary schools in Ireland are private schools. Most of them are church-owned (Catholic and various other churches). They receive financial assistance from the state, a right given under Article 44 of the Constitution.

While technically accurate, this doesn't give the full story. The 'financial assistance' is of course the full salaries of all the teachers plus the capitation fee per pupil, i.e. the lion's share of the running costs. And most capital improvement projects (new schools/wings/classrooms) are covered by the state too. So he who pays the piper doesn't call the tune.

 

[truthseeker]

Primary schools in Ireland are private schools. Most of them are church-owned (Catholic and various other churches). They receive financial assistance from the state, a right given under Article 44 of the Constitution.

Taken from www.citizensinformation.ie:

The types of schools available

The Irish primary education sector consists of state-funded primary schools, special schools and private primary schools. State-funded primary schools used to be known as national schools and you may still hear this term being used. State-funded schools include religious schools, multi-denominational schools and Gaelscoileanna, which are schools that teach the curriculum through the Irish language. You can view a list of State-funded primary schools in Ireland on the Department of Education's website here.

Religion in Irish schools
Most Irish primary schools are under the management of one denomination or another and the majority of these are Roman Catholic. There is, however, a growing choice of schools of other denominations and of multi-denominational schools.

Schools that cater for a single religion may give priority to children of that religion but they will also admit children with other religious beliefs, or none. Children do not have to attend religion classes and you may choose to withdraw your child from such classes if you wish.

Regardless of religion, all primary schools operate under similar rules. The main differences relate to the appointment of the principal of the school and the choice of teacher representatives on the Board of Management.

It would appear that 'financial assistance' = state funding.

It says here that you may withdraw your child from religion, but my experience of such is that if there is nowhere else for the child to go they must stay in the classroom.

 

[casiopea]

Some interesting comments in there.

1) Of course the teachers will be religious themselves. They wouldn't get the job if they weren't, because the school can legally discriminate on grounds of religion again. Such discrimination would of course be illegal for other employers.

Nope, that is not the case at all. Many teachers are not religious, were not asked if they were religious in the interview phase (depending on the school board) and in some cases actively dont believe what they are teaching. It is an acknowledged problem that many schools are aware of. The last time I was involved in a conversation about this I was told that there simply wouldnt be enough primary teachers if insisting they are practicing catholics (/belief in God) was made a criteria of job acceptance.

 

[liaconn]

I know primary school teachers who don't practise their religion, openly live with their partners etc. You seem to be looking for grounds to complain of 'discrimination'.

 

[Bronte]

Many parents (me included) will be left wondering if there any other implications for how their children will be treated for their remaining five years in that school if they opt-out.

Making it an opt-in process would remove some of these doubts by removing the expectation of participation.

I agree with you that it should be at a minimum an opt-in process but I'd go further as I don't believe religion should be taught as part of the school curriculum. In relation to your point about there being implications, my sibling had a very difficult time with the pressure that is brought to bear on one if one does not go with the flock. The teacher of the eldest child did the best to make it inclusive so the child (the only one) was not left out and for the next child a different teacher was quite nasty. Children feel these things. Incidentally recently when the local priest called to the school and asked a 'religious' question it was my sibling's child who was the only one able to answer. There is also the pressure the child exerts on the parents, which comes from the school and classmates and wanting to be the same as everybody else, which the Church will milk for all it's worth.

 

[liaconn]

Have you any basis for this? As far as I'm aware the Church does not want people taking part in sacraments that they don't believe in. Obviously the kids will want to be the same as the other kids but this happens with everything and is a natural part of growing up. In fairness, if you send your children to a Catholic school (for convenience or whatever reason) and the vast majority of the people there are happy to have religion taught, Holy Communion an integral part of the school year for 8 yr olds etc you can't demand that it all be changed to suit a small handful of people.