Ron Burgundy
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Re: Holy Communion/Behaviour in Mass
What a pointless post. Is clubman alive and well ?
Is that like a Baptism?
What a pointless post. Is clubman alive and well ?
Very bad behaviour at Mass for First Holy Communion.
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The_Banker
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Lets be honest, the Catholic Church are not going to let go of the hold they have on primary schools. At least not without a fight anyway.
The parents of the kids in primary love dressing their kids up and giving them a day out on communion day.
It’s a win/win situation and a bit of noise is a small price to keep everyone happy. Except of course for the devout parents of the kids who take the ceremony seriously.
Maybe there should be two ceremonies? One for devout parents and one for parent who like a nice day out?
The parents of the kids in primary love dressing their kids up and giving them a day out on communion day.
It’s a win/win situation and a bit of noise is a small price to keep everyone happy. Except of course for the devout parents of the kids who take the ceremony seriously.
Maybe there should be two ceremonies? One for devout parents and one for parent who like a nice day out?
Complainer
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Are the parents generally asked if the want to present their children, or is it just generally taken for granted that this is something that everyone does?
In reality, you are right of course. But it is a bit rich of them to get uppity about people not taking these ceremonies seriously when the structures they impose are the root cause of the problem.
Ron Burgundy
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Re: Holy Communion/Behaviour in Mass
Thats weird because its Sacrament of Marriage yet i go to weddings
Not once were the words sacrament of marriage used during the cermony at my own "wedding". Also the civil part is done after all the religious cermony is finished and tyhe majority of the paperwork is filled in before the weddings.
christening is a term used within my family as well and i think its rather sad to look down on other posters because they don't use the same words and terms as you.
Thats weird because its Sacrament of Marriage yet i go to weddings
Not once were the words sacrament of marriage used during the cermony at my own "wedding". Also the civil part is done after all the religious cermony is finished and tyhe majority of the paperwork is filled in before the weddings.
christening is a term used within my family as well and i think its rather sad to look down on other posters because they don't use the same words and terms as you.
What do you mean? The structures haven't changed since we made our Communion, and parents took it seriously then.
Complainer
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Complainer
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I'm not suggesting any change to the sacrament.
I'm suggesting a change to the structure of the education system that herds children into this process at age 7, without asking the parents whether this is what they want.
Given that most of these parents had their children baptised as well, I don't think its the school 'forcing' them to do anything. If that was the situation, why do they get so aereated about suggestions that the kids wear their uniform for the ceremony etc. I think a lot (not all) of parents just treat these occasions as a social event with the church part just a boring precursor to the party. I think priests are in a difficult position. If they refused to christen or confirm children who are not brought to Mass and whose parents have no intention of rearing them as Catholics they would be absolutely attacked.
Complainer
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Indeed it is. How many of them will have done the baptism simply to get round the school's discriminatory enrollment policies, which permit discrimination on religious grounds?
Again, I've never suggested that the priests refuse anything. I've simply suggested that they (along with the school authorities) don't make the automatic assumption that every parent wants their children to take part. Make it an 'opt-in' activity.
I doubt very much that that's the main motivation behind baptism. If that was the case, why the elaborate parties, bouncy castles etc that seem to go with all christenings nowadays.
Parents are perfectly entitled to say that they don't want their child to make their Communion (or, indeed, to send their child to a non denominational school).
The_Banker
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How many non denominational schools are there in each area?
My sister sends her kids to a non denominational school in Cork but they choose the children who attend on a first come first served basis as the demand for places far exceeds the size of the school.
In fact the school was not a "designated" school. Parents in the past took over the building and had in converted to meet there needs. They have to fund raise for it themselves and for years previously had to fight for Department of Education approval.
BoscoTalking
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centuries actually and where is the "problem" there is none as far as i can see.
Well, in the absence of a proper measure, let's assume none ? God forbid that a message board should be subject to baseless conjecture to support an opinion
.My son made his first Holy Communion on Saturday and we had a great day. The school he attends has an up-front Catholic ethos and all children were encouraged to participate in the preparations for the sacrament. I'm not clear on the varying levels of engagement, buit no-one was asked to step out of the class.
On the day, most of the kids were in their Communion finery. Those who hadn't been baptised into the faith went to the altar same as everyone else. Those who were able to receive the host did so and those who were not received a blessing from the priest.
Some have not been baptised, others were baptised into other faiths, yet none were excluded.
I don't know of any non-denominational schools in Ireland, although I suppose that some might exist. The usual alternative to a denominational school is a multi-denominational school.
Could'nt agree with you more liaconn. Well said.
I remember at both communion and confirmation letters being sent out letting parents know that the class was preparing for these and if they had any issues they could meet the school board/principal beforehand
I remember when I went to the local village primary school in rural Ireland back in the 70s and 80s, there were a number of Protestant families in the village, their kids were in the same class as me and all that happened when it came to religous education/first communion etc they simply went off and had a "Study break" or did additional arts and crafts. There was never any issue around whether or not these kids would be granted permission or not to attend the school, they were local and that was that. I'm struggling to believe (as some posters are suggesting) that in this day and age a school would refuse permission for a child to attend because they were not baptised.
Children are not forced to get First Communion by the schools or the church. It's a decision their parents have to make for them. The reality however is that many people nowadays see it as an excuse for a party/show off to friends, or don't believe in the sacrament but don't want their child to "loose out". The reality is also that many of the parents simply don't know how to behave in a church and their behaviour in a church quite often reflects their behaviour outside of it
Children are not forced to get First Communion by the schools or the church. It's a decision their parents have to make for them. The reality however is that many people nowadays see it as an excuse for a party/show off to friends, or don't believe in the sacrament but don't want their child to "loose out". The reality is also that many of the parents simply don't know how to behave in a church and their behaviour in a church quite often reflects their behaviour outside of it
Complainer
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So it is an 'opt-out' process. Why not go for 'opt-in', and let those who choose to participate do so.
OK, we I can confirm that 'none' is wrong, as in our case, getting access to the local school was the main reason for baptism.
This sounds like a reasonably inclusive approach, and I'm glad you had a great day. However, I have a problem with religious activities being done as part of the core school curriculum. This is indeed religious discrimination, even if ways are found to involve the heathens.
Check out the enrollment policy of any parish school. Priority is given to children of that religion. If the school is over-subscribed, thouse who are not baptised won't get it. This kind of religious discrimination is enshrined in law.
Well it definitely was the main motivation in our case. Do you reckon that we are unique?
And no, there was no bouncy castle afterwards in our case - just a simple family lunch, but I can understand the attraction of the bouncy castle if you have a load of other younger kids attending the family function.
The choice of multi-denominational is not a simple one. There is none in my area. Choosing this school (which of course has a waiting list) would mean a 4-mile car commute each day, instead of a 1-mile bike/walk commute. It is not a simple option.
Religion is not an essential ingredient in any other state-provided service. It should not be part of our schools.
I think the main point is they are given an option. If the parents dont want your children to take part its entirely up to them.
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