join a campaign to protect CB - check out www.childbenefit.info

Pique318 said:
However, if you're a skanger who sits around all day, mooches off the govt, claims every other benefit under the sun, then tough, you ain't gettin it until you start to work (which is never because their equivalant salary would be miles out of their reach should anyone actually hire them).
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Wow you know one of my neighbours?

I agree that it is utterly important that a balance made so that working is rewarded and not as it is presently penalized. Just wait until the new tax come into effect shortly, we all are going to loose major money while the social welfare benefit is actualy in real terms going up.

Paternity benefit is in my opinon crucial and people should have the opportunity to take off work for the first couple of month on a paid basis and similar non working people should get a benefit allowing them to have the same benefit.

But once that is over there is no reason for the community to reward you for having children by paying you money.

I can agree to a tax credit which rewards people with children who work as they have higher cost (child minder etc.), but somebody on welfare does not have such cost so they should not be getting a benefit.

I'm all for an total overhaul of our social welfare system. We must provide assistance to those in need for a resonable time frame, but we also must not provide more than actualy needed or even a level where it is better to stay home than to go to work.
 
jaybird said:
Why is it that every other country in Europe provides far more assistance to those with children?
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You are absolutely sure about this are you? Off the top of my head I can think of at least two or three countries who don't.
 
As I said on another thread I don't think children should be seen as an 'affordable' commodity, as if they were a holiday home or decking for the back garden and it is important to support and encourage people to have families if they want them. However, it is annoying when some people who claim that they 'need' child benefit seem to have plenty of money to spoil their kids rotten. People like that don't need a handout from the taxpayer and when times are hard it is only reasonable to means test child benefit. I know they're raising the next generation but I don't think people have kids for altruistic reasons, they have them because they want them, not for the future of Ireland.
 
csirl said:
One big problem we have in this country is that it is more attractive to be on social welfare than to take a low or even low to medium paid job. This is because there is little or no difference between social welfare income and income levels in these jobs. Means testing child benefit will tip the balance more in favour of not working. It is not good for society or the countries finances to have a large proportion of its potential workforce being paid to stay at home because it is not cost effective for them to take a job.

In spite of us now having 10% unemployment, visit your local convenience store, fast food outlet, cleaning/security company etc. etc. and you'll struggle to find an Irish worker. These employers still have to import foreign workers, including a large percentage of non-EU on work permits, to fill their vacancies. Madness.

For this reason, child benefit should not be means tested. In fact, there is an argument for changing it into a tax credit to encourage people to work. Afterall, if you are unemployed, you have no childcare costs.
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The jobs you mention above are not eligible for first time work permits and haven't been since 2007. The list of jobs eligible for permits has been tightened even further this year. The only people who are eligible for employment permits from now on are those who have a skill that cannot be obtained from within the EU and the salary on offer must be at least 30,000.
 
jaybird said:
Wow, 2 or 3 countries are even stingier than we are....we should be meaner, race to the bottom! :rolleyes:
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No-one is saying that. And it was at least 2 or 3 countries.

So you admit your original statement was emotional and inaccurate?
 
liaconn said:
The jobs you mention above are not eligible for first time work permits and haven't been since 2007. The list of jobs eligible for permits has been tightened even further this year. The only people who are eligible for employment permits from now on are those who have a skill that cannot be obtained from within the EU and the salary on offer must be at least 30,000.
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Pull the other one.......this does not seem to be applied by our immigration service. It appears that if you advertise a job at such a low salary that would not be financially attractive to an unemployed person, you can claim that the "skill" cannot be obtained within the EU and you'll get permits for non-EU workers on close to min wage. In my area, these jobs are dominated by Chinese and Indian workers.

In any event, 30k is far far far too low a salary level for a work permit - is way lower than the average income and well within the non-skilled range. Permits should only be given for jobs in excess of 50-60k that require third level qualifications or other extensive training. There is no 30k job in Ireland that someone cant be trained to do within a matter of weeks.
 
jaybird said:
You keep saying paternity benefit/leave (or paternative, which isn't actually a word) do you mean parental? Or do you have some social engineering plan to make all fathers stay at home and send the mothers out to work?
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You are right, I mean parental leave.
 
Wow, talk about stepping into a Bizarro World thread. They're talking means testing, not abolishing, Child Benefit. Means testing would imply those with the means no longer receive it. Seems pretty rational to me. Everything else in this thread is just conceited nonsense.

demoivre said:
When it's eventually means tested / taxed the ones who don't need it ie the ones who spend it on cigarettes, go to cafés/pubs on the first Tuesday in the month will keep getting it and the better off who are more likely to spend it on their kids education will lose it imo.
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I hope you, or no one you know, ever have to rely on child benefit to put food on the table.
 
The phrase “Race to the bottom” is union speak for defending protectionism.
We cannot have what we cannot afford. Those countries that do have more state support for parents have economies that can sustain the burden of that social infrastructure. We do not. That’s why we don’t have it. If, at some point in the future, we have an economy that can afford it we should look at putting such structures in place. Until then we should not as only a fool spends money he doesn’t have.
 
Howitzer said:
Wow, talk about stepping into a Bizarro World thread. They're talking means testing, not abolishing, Child Benefit. Means testing would imply those with the means no longer receive it. Seems pretty rational to me. Everything else in this thread is just conceited nonsense.
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Means testing cb is wrong. The money is for the benefit of the child. The better off parents are more likely to spend the money on their children

I hope you, or no one you know, ever have to rely on child benefit to put food on the table.
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Well the people I'm talking about don't rely on cb for putting food on the table. After they've blown it along with the dole on cigarettes/alcohol the food is put on the table for them by the St Vincent de Paul, who've also furnished the 3 bedroomed semi they live in, the rent for which is being paid for by the state.
 
demoivre said:
Well the people I'm talking about don't rely on cb for putting food on the table. After they've blown it along with the dole on cigarettes/alcohol the food is put on the table for them by the St Vincent de Paul, who've also furnished the 3 bedroomed semi they live in, the rent for which is being paid for by the state.
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Well that's not a problem so. You just adjust the means test to exclude all selfish, self centered, ignorant, narrow minded fools.

Something we can all agree on.
 
csirl said:
Pull the other one.......this does not seem to be applied by our immigration service. It appears that if you advertise a job at such a low salary that would not be financially attractive to an unemployed person, you can claim that the "skill" cannot be obtained within the EU and you'll get permits for non-EU workers on close to min wage.
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Not any more. There are certain jobs that are ineligible for a work permit and it doesn't matter whether you advertise them or not, they are simply ineligible. And it is the Dept of Enterprise, Trade & Employment who control this, not the immigration services. The €30,000 is now going to be strictly applied, apparently, very very few 'exceptions' will be made from now on.
 
demoivre said:
Means testing cb is wrong. The money is for the benefit of the child. The better off parents are more likely to spend the money on their children

.
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Yes, but the point is that the better off parents don't 'need' the money. Just because they spend it on the child doesn't mean they're automatically entitled to it. There are people who need taxpayers money more eg special needs children.
 
A citizen of the state should be entitled to a vote, your freedom and equality under the law. State benefits are institutionalised charity given by your fellow citizens. Those who accept benefits are accepting charity from others; it is the ignorance of this fact that has lead to the culture of entitlement that pervades this country like a cancer.

I do not need CB, just like many others. I should not be “entitled” to it.
 
The OP was selling 2 houses for 700k on another thread. Hardly dependant on child benefit..
 
Niallers said:
The OP was selling 2 houses for 700k on another thread. Hardly dependant on child benefit..
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You mean this one:
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=60652

"Also, I am baffled that buyers in the commuter belt are not considering the value for money to be achieved in the country (never mind the Quality of life issue). The road networks are so good now, people can work from home......."

What a difference a year and a half makes, I wonder what percentage of the €700K would represent value for money now....
 
So let me understand this, this OP who claims to be a middle income Public Sector worker with 4 children and at least 2 high end properties is complaining about the state possibly taking away the Child Benefit?

Say it loud with me "Personal Responsiblity"!

If you can get 2 properties on a middle income public sector workers salary than please get your act together.

People like the OP are what is wrong with this country, not to mention that ever since doing the OP nothing from them here anymore.
 
DublinTexas said:
So let me understand this, this OP who claims to be a middle income Public Sector worker with 4 children and at least 2 high end properties is complaining about the state possibly taking away the Child Benefit?

Say it loud with me "Personal Responsiblity"!

If you can get 2 properties on a middle income public sector workers salary than please get your act together.

People like the OP are what is wrong with this country, not to mention that ever since doing the OP nothing from them here anymore.
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Perhaps what's wrong with this country is people making judgements based on very little information.
 
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