3rd level fees

As someone who came from a "low income family" and attended what is currently a "designated disadvantaged" secondary school and who went onto graduate from university, prior to the free fees era, my opinions are based on personal experience.

I attended university during a time of severe exchequer cutbacks. In spite of being from a low income family, I still have to pay partial fees and got no maintenance grants. Therefore I had to work part time to support myself and pay fees. People from well off families were ok in college for obvious reasons. Believe it or not, those form unemployed backgrounds were also ok in college - got fees paid, maintenance grants etc. and so did not have to do as much part time work. It was those from working class backgrounds who suffered most.

There were several classmates of mine from secondary school who got enough points to goto college, but did not go because of fees - were themselves fearful that they would not earn enough working part time or the burden of substantial part time working hours would be too great. There were also some who went to college, but had to drop out for financial reasons.

As well as the above, there were a number of people I went to secondary school with who, in spite of getting high points in the LC, did not even bother to fill in a CAO form. They were mainly from low income families where nobody had ever gone to third level. Their decision not to apply was mainly motivated by the parents being fearful of getting a fees bill that they could not pay. For these families, reassuring them that they can work part time or get a loan etc. etc. does not work. They are already daunted by third level to begin with.

A lot of people who argue for the return of fees or introduction of loans etc. saying this and that about students from low income families dont have a clue what they are talking about and no experience of the situation.
 
As someone who came from a "low income family" and attended what is currently a "designated disadvantaged" secondary school and who went onto graduate from university, prior to the free fees era, my opinions are based on personal experience.

I attended university during a time of severe exchequer cutbacks. In spite of being from a low income family, I still have to pay partial fees and got no maintenance grants. Therefore I had to work part time to support myself and pay fees. People from well off families were ok in college for obvious reasons. Believe it or not, those form unemployed backgrounds were also ok in college - got fees paid, maintenance grants etc. and so did not have to do as much part time work. It was those from working class backgrounds who suffered most.

There were several classmates of mine from secondary school who got enough points to goto college, but did not go because of fees - were themselves fearful that they would not earn enough working part time or the burden of substantial part time working hours would be too great. There were also some who went to college, but had to drop out for financial reasons.

As well as the above, there were a number of people I went to secondary school with who, in spite of getting high points in the LC, did not even bother to fill in a CAO form. They were mainly from low income families where nobody had ever gone to third level. Their decision not to apply was mainly motivated by the parents being fearful of getting a fees bill that they could not pay. For these families, reassuring them that they can work part time or get a loan etc. etc. does not work. They are already daunted by third level to begin with.

A lot of people who argue for the return of fees or introduction of loans etc. saying this and that about students from low income families dont have a clue what they are talking about and no experience of the situation.


The ideal would be to have a means tested system but, unfortunately, the last time this was tried it was widely abused by the self employed, most notoriously farmers, who indulged in some creative accounting in order to rob the poor box and get free third level education for their well fed, often privately educated kids. The Government, of course, turned a blind eye while the paye workers had to put up and pay up as usual.
 
As someone who came from a "low income family" and attended what is currently a "designated disadvantaged" secondary school and who went onto graduate from university, prior to the free fees era, my opinions are based on personal experience.

I attended university during a time of severe exchequer cutbacks. In spite of being from a low income family, I still have to pay partial fees and got no maintenance grants. Therefore I had to work part time to support myself and pay fees. People from well off families were ok in college for obvious reasons. Believe it or not, those form unemployed backgrounds were also ok in college - got fees paid, maintenance grants etc. and so did not have to do as much part time work. It was those from working class backgrounds who suffered most.

There were several classmates of mine from secondary school who got enough points to goto college, but did not go because of fees - were themselves fearful that they would not earn enough working part time or the burden of substantial part time working hours would be too great. There were also some who went to college, but had to drop out for financial reasons.

As well as the above, there were a number of people I went to secondary school with who, in spite of getting high points in the LC, did not even bother to fill in a CAO form. They were mainly from low income families where nobody had ever gone to third level. Their decision not to apply was mainly motivated by the parents being fearful of getting a fees bill that they could not pay. For these families, reassuring them that they can work part time or get a loan etc. etc. does not work. They are already daunted by third level to begin with.

A lot of people who argue for the return of fees or introduction of loans etc. saying this and that about students from low income families dont have a clue what they are talking about and no experience of the situation.

The ideal would be to have a means tested system but, the last time this was tried it was widely abused by the self employed, most notoriously farmers, who had no scruples about indulging in a little creative accounting in order to rob the taxpayers and help themselves from the poor box which was not meant for their well fed, often privately educated kids. The Government, of course, turned a blind eye while paye workers had to put up and pay up, as usual.
 
Keyword though is students. I don't agree with expecting middle class families to pay for their kids college education. A tax on students future earnings over a certain threshold
I think this is called 'income tax'.
 
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