Northern Ireland Troubles
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Sylvester3
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The Provisional IRA rode in on the back of Civil Rights abuses and discriminatory practices. Those things have been more or less sweeped away now by the GFA and power sharing government, so hopefully there will be no groundswell of popular opinion to support them. Unfortunately a small minority of troublemakers can still cause a lot of damage as Islamic fundamentalists have shown in Madrid and London.
There has been a lot more gangland killings in Dublin does this stop people going to Dublin?
Ruam
- No because this is simply scum killing scum. Travelling to the North is now a different matter if the loyalists decide to get involved.
Lex Foutish
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I think you're right, Theresa. We mightn't like to admit it but I for one don't lose too much sleep when one gangland scumbag kills another. Probably the opposite, if I were to be totally honest. Of course, the big problem is the innocent people who get caught in the wrong place at the wrong time by the aforementioned scumbags.
I had hoped to visit the North at some stage in the future, but I wouldn't at all feel safe going up there if this continues. I wouldn't be too relaxed driving up there with a Southern number plate.
Ruam, I'd probably still feel ok taking the 02-C car to Dublin though.
On a serious note, my thoughts and prayers are with the families, friends and colleagues of the two British Soldiers and the PSNI Officer who were murdered over the weekend. Like the rest of us, they got up that morning to go to work but they never made it home that night.
I really hope that the low life pieces of human trash who carried out the murders will get what they deserve.
Why? My husband is a born and bred Derry-man and we regularly travel up and down to visit family up there. in my near 18 years of vistiting we have never had any bother, I get more grief off my staunchly repubician inlaws about the fact that I was born in England! We have parked up and gone into shops in very loyalist areas, Union Flags hung everywhere and the kerbs painted red white and blue, without trouble.
My heart breaks for the families of those killed but it's not bandit country and no-one should be afraid to vist what is actually a really good place to go.
As a NI born and bred guy I find some of the comments on here quite silly to be honest.
You are letting the culture of fear grip you, and are becoming like all those UK and US citizens who think that you are going to die at the hands of a terrorist.
If you travel to NI there is a 99.99999% chance that you will see nothing at all. It was even like this during the Troubles, and I lived through them.
Try to look at the whole situation with a bit of common sense. NI is abslutely packed full of RoI cars. Just because you are in a RoI car doesn't mean you are in any danger. There are about 100 RIRA volunteers according to the authorities, and probably less Loyalist terrorists with intent on doing any harm. Do you really think that you are in any danger during a visit? If the answer if YES then I think you better get under your bed and never come out, cos the world is a very dangerous place.
You are letting the culture of fear grip you, and are becoming like all those UK and US citizens who think that you are going to die at the hands of a terrorist.
If you travel to NI there is a 99.99999% chance that you will see nothing at all. It was even like this during the Troubles, and I lived through them.
Try to look at the whole situation with a bit of common sense. NI is abslutely packed full of RoI cars. Just because you are in a RoI car doesn't mean you are in any danger. There are about 100 RIRA volunteers according to the authorities, and probably less Loyalist terrorists with intent on doing any harm. Do you really think that you are in any danger during a visit? If the answer if YES then I think you better get under your bed and never come out, cos the world is a very dangerous place.
+1
I used to go through 'the village' in South Belfast 3 times a week in a southern reg car for about a year. It was absolutely fine. In fact, I'd be far more wary of simple common street crime/thuggery in places like this rather than anything in any way politically motivated.
Actually, does anyone know of a single occasion when a southern member of the public was randomly targeted in some way whilst in NI? I can't think of any.
Sylvester3
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I think the real fear for tourists and visitors would be random bombings rather than being deliberately targeted.
There should be a fairly low risk of this as the intelligence services have said that the dissidents technical ability isn't up to it yet (a car bomb was recently found abandoned due to technical failures), which is probably why they have gone to hands on direct killings against groups that they rationalise as legitimate targets. Republican and Loyalist extremists haven't deliberately made themselves into bombs yet (bar the odd accident), as their radicalism doesn't extend to killing themselves for the cause, so they need to be quite technically skilled to make remote devices. Most of that skill set has been pensioned off at the moment...
There should be a fairly low risk of this as the intelligence services have said that the dissidents technical ability isn't up to it yet (a car bomb was recently found abandoned due to technical failures), which is probably why they have gone to hands on direct killings against groups that they rationalise as legitimate targets. Republican and Loyalist extremists haven't deliberately made themselves into bombs yet (bar the odd accident), as their radicalism doesn't extend to killing themselves for the cause, so they need to be quite technically skilled to make remote devices. Most of that skill set has been pensioned off at the moment...
it's not just the idea of bombings and direct targeting though...i'd be more concerned about having my tires slashed or windscreen smashed or something if i parked in the wrong place...who needs the hassle? i was planning on doing my monthly shopping trip up there this weekend but am now having second thoughts.
i'll admit i was ill at ease when i took a wrong turn off a belfast street recently and ended up in a red, white and blue estate. personally i think all that painting of kerbs, flags etc should be outlawed in both nationalist and loyalist areas. and take down all those gable end murals while they're at it...that stuff just breeds incitement.
i'll admit i was ill at ease when i took a wrong turn off a belfast street recently and ended up in a red, white and blue estate. personally i think all that painting of kerbs, flags etc should be outlawed in both nationalist and loyalist areas. and take down all those gable end murals while they're at it...that stuff just breeds incitement.
Well like I said, do you know of anyone - one person - that this has happened to? I've never heard of it.
Anyway, if your proposed trip is for shopping it further reduces the already small chances of danger or damage to your property/car - it's not like the shopping areas are located in ghettos.
Maybe I am wrong but I reckon the new CIRA/RIRA 'campaign' is all about money and racketeering. Money is scarce at the moment and the many provos made good money during the troubles thru various methods - I am hearing many young people joining the CIRA/RIRA ranks to further their own aims more so than 'republican ideals'.
Sylvester3
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I'm from the greater Belfast area, but I've lived in Cork for a few years and have a Cork registered car. When I first came up to see my parents I was a little concerned about what reaction I would get. I was a little worried about scratched paint etc. In fact I've seen nothing and my car has remained unmolested, and this is despite me getting lost in Belfast and driving around both Nationalist and Loyalist areas trying to find the westlink!
As to your other point - trying to force people to give up their sense of identity is doomed to failure, and probably in an explosive way. Do you remember the riots when the Orange order were first denied the use of their "traditional routes"? Well imagine trying to get people on both sides to remove their art work and colours. It just won't happen. Besides - the murals are a recognised tourist attraction now!
Saying that though, communities have changed their murals in the last few years to reflect the changing times (peaceful non-sectarian murals etc), so change coming from within can work, and will keep happening as long as we can keep the momentum going the right way.
Lex Foutish
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Glad to hear that Sylvester. Maybe I was wrong to think it might be otherwise.
I was SO reassured by the interview given by Loyalist, Frankie Gallagher, on Morning Ireland this morning. It was truly amazing to hear him say what he said about Sinn Féin and about The DUP also. Not to mention his reference to his Study Group's research of Republicanism with a view to trying to fully understand it.
It really does seem that we won't be going back to the bad old days.
Didn't hear it Lex - what was that all about?
I must say I'm always very interested in and encouraged by the moderate/more intellectual versions of loyalism. I think David Irvine was a sad loss - I know committed republicans who respected him.
(I'm originally from NI too by the way)
Lex Foutish
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Hi Caveat. I have always regarded David Irvine as one of the finest politicians this island ever produced and I deeply regretted his passing. I would have loved to see him hold a senior position in the Northern Ireland Government. He came to Cork a few years ago and was part of a discussion forum. I only learned about it afterwards and will always regret not meeting him. He talked such sense when better known Unionist politicians were shadow boxing and going around in circles and talking a lot of rubbish.
This morning Freddie Gallagher, who could be regarded as the current David Irvine, I reckon, was asked if he thought we would return to the spiral of violence that we knew years ago. He felt that there was no chance of it and immediately went on to praise Sinn Féin for the way they had changed and for stepping up to the plate and he went on to say that they had even gone further than what his constituency would have expected of them. He also praised the DUP and spoke similarly of them. He also referred to Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness coming out yesterday with the Chief Constable.
I went to work on a high this morning after hearing it. I'd be very surprised if they don't replay it on Drivetime this evening at 4:30.
I grew up a Catholic in West Cork but have no great interest in institutional religion. It's caused a huge amount of the world's problems down through the ages.