Taking a real stand,suggestions

Jaysus, Purple, that's pushing it a bit!

I will continue to refer to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions as "Congress" in informal usage, and I am convinced that democracy will not be endangered by that.
 
Padraigb said:
Jaysus, Purple, that's pushing it a bit!

I will continue to refer to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions as "Congress" in informal usage, and I am convinced that democracy will not be endangered by that.
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People may not know which Congress ( from wherever ! ) you mean....far better to refer to this vested interest group as the ICTU.
 
There’s an ad in one of the free rags (Herald AM, I think) this morning with a stupid, nonsensical, populist and economically illiterate propaganda ad from the ICTU. In the bottom right hand corner, below the drivel, it says “Congress” in large letters with “Irish congress of trade unions” underneath in much smaller print. Make no mistake; the ICTU is engaged in an aggressive and insidious campaign to brand themselves as “Congress” and blur the line between them and the government and legislature of this country.
 
Purple said:
There’s an ad in one of the free rags (Herald AM, I think) this morning with a stupid, nonsensical, populist and economically illiterate propaganda ad from the ICTU. In the bottom right hand corner, below the drivel, it says “Congress” in large letters with “Irish congress of trade unions” underneath in much smaller print. Make no mistake; the ICTU is engaged in an aggressive and insidious campaign to brand themselves as “Congress” and blur the line between them and the government and legislature of this country.
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Purple, I know you're anti union but that is really going too far. ICTU are an umbrella group for all trade unions in Ireland and the last thing they're trying to do is blur the line between themselves and Govt. 'Congress' is just short cut speak, its not part of some conspiracy theory.
 
liaconn said:
Purple, I know you're anti union but that is really going too far. ICTU are an umbrella group for all trade unions in Ireland and the last thing they're trying to do is blur the line between themselves and Govt. 'Congress' is just short cut speak, its not part of some conspiracy theory.
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I'm not anti union per say; if IBEC or any other vested interest group were doing the same thing I would be just as opposed to it.
 
liaconn said:
Purple, I know you're anti union but that is really going too far. ICTU are an umbrella group for all trade unions in Ireland and the last thing they're trying to do is blur the line between themselves and Govt. 'Congress' is just short cut speak, its not part of some conspiracy theory.
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Well ever since the Polit Bureau (aka social partners) failed "congress" must somehow show that they are still a viable part of the political process and represent the people (all people not just the public sector workers) and making sure that "congress" is used over and over again gives them more legit point that they represent all people (and not just public service workers).

I'm all for unions (it's a workers right to organise) but right now I think this is actualy france with all the strikes going on.
 
Mpsox said:
You're absolutely correct that FAS at nothing to do with unvouched expenses. That was just incredible arrogance from one area of the public sector. However, can you honestly justify an unvouched expense policy. I don't know anyone for example in the private sector who get's a lunch allowance if they are off site. Many private sector companies won't even allow lunch as a vouched expense on the grounds that you'd be eating your lunch if you were in the office anyway
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To be frank, I really don't think you know what you're talking about here. I've been on both sides of the fence, and unvouched fixed rate expenses are a double-edged sword. I've been in situations where I've travelled on a 7 am train, returning at 4.30 pm and I get the princely 5-hour allowance of about €16 for subsistence for the day. I have no real choice other than to take Iarnrod Eireann's pricey €12 brekkie, so I'm left €4 to spend on the trolley service on the return journey without being out of pocket. I have certainly found myself staying in downmarket hotels or B&Bs (which would never have been the case in my private sector days) to stay under the 24-hour allowance of €145 for 24 hours (accomodation and all meals). Indeed, I've lost money on some trips where I've opted to stay in the same hotel as the private sector consultants on the job (being paid out of my budget), as they aren't operating in the same restrictive environment. Some days I make a few quid on the €40 10-hour allowance, so it all comes out in the wash. However, the unvouched fixed rate allowance eliminates any issues about what is covered, and what is not covered. There is no arguements about the bottle of wine or the glass of beer - it's a fixed rate.
 
Complainer said:
unvouched fixed rate expenses are a double-edged sword. I've been in situations where I've travelled on a 7 am train, returning at 4.30 pm and I get the princely 5-hour allowance of about €16 for subsistence for the day. I have no real choice other than to take Iarnrod Eireann's pricey €12 brekkie, so I'm left €4 to spend on the trolley service on the return journey without being out of pocket. I have certainly found myself staying in downmarket hotels or B&Bs (which would never have been the case in my private sector days) to stay under the 24-hour allowance of €145 for 24 hours (accomodation and all meals). Indeed, I've lost money on some trips where I've opted to stay in the same hotel as the private sector consultants on the job (being paid out of my budget), as they aren't operating in the same restrictive environment. Some days I make a few quid on the €40 10-hour allowance, so it all comes out in the wash. However, the unvouched fixed rate allowance eliminates any issues about what is covered, and what is not covered. There is no arguements about the bottle of wine or the glass of beer - it's a fixed rate.
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I agree with that. It's the large sums of "walking around money" that I object to.
 
Bronte said:
Sorry I'm confused what do you get the €40 for? Is this in addition to your hotel and meals or am I missing something?
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For 5 hours or more away the allowance is €16, for over 10 hours away the allowance is €40, for an overnight it’s €145. I think that these are fair and reasonable rates and considering that with the alternative there would be a massive administrative cost to validating every little expense I think it’s a smart way of doing things that offers very good value for money.
 
What has the country come too, now the Pdforra (Permanent Defence Forces Other Ranks Representative Association) is joining the protest tommorrow and sought assurances from Mr O’Dea that soldiers would not be used, as they have been in the past, to fill jobs vacated by striking ambulance staff and bus workers.

Why the heck do we have Defence Forces if not to guarantee our security and wellbeing in case of major problems.

Isn't it that the case that if nationwide public service strikes were to take place, soldiers should be used to provide security in the country’s prisons and other institutions?

Why have defence forces otherwise? The Money transports can be protected by gardai, propping up a real coast guard could be used for protecting the sea border and sending troups to foreign country's is not realy something I see fit for us either. So we keep expensive Defence Forces and when we need them to keep security in prisons they deceide they don't like it and protest.
 
YOBR said:
Is it not a requirement of UN membership that we have a defence force?
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Giving that the UN is an organisation of "peace-loving states" that might be absurd, in fact [broken link removed]does not outline such a requirement.
 
Bronte said:
Sorry I'm confused what do you get the €40 for? Is this in addition to your hotel and meals or am I missing something?
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No - €40 to cover all meals for any absence more than 10 hours and less than 24 hours. If I don't have to buy dinner away, I'll make a few quid on this. If I find myself buying breakfast, lunch and dinner on the road, I'll lose a few quid.
 
Complainer said:
No - €40 to cover all meals for any absence more than 10 hours and less than 24 hours. If I don't have to buy dinner away, I'll make a few quid on this. If I find myself buying breakfast, lunch and dinner on the road, I'll lose a few quid.
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Now someone needs to explain to me if this is the rule how the FAS spending happens than.

Are we saying there are one rule for the poor real workers and one rule for the others?
 
I don't know about FAS, but complainer is quite right re the civil service. When I go away, I can't afford to have breakfast as they will then take 19 euro away leaving me with twenty euro for lunch, dinner and any teas or coffees. I usually bring a banana or a cereal bar and have it in my room. Hardly high living at the taxpayers' expense.
 
Purple, I know you're anti union but that is really going too far. ICTU are an umbrella group for all trade unions in Ireland and the last thing they're trying to do is blur the line between themselves and Govt. 'Congress' is just short cut speak, its not part of some conspiracy theory.
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Why are they calling themselves 'Congress' then? - when I first read that term on this thread, I thought it was some government group and was very confused by it.
ICTU is shorter, and not ambiguous.

I certainly would not join any such demonstration arranged by Unions, when they are partly responsible for the dire state the country is in right now. A pity it's them organising the protests.
 
leghorn said:
Why are they calling themselves 'Congress' then? - when I first read that term on this thread, I thought it was some government group and was very confused by it.
ICTU is shorter, and not ambiguous.
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Why should they not call themselves "Congress"? People in the TU movement have referred to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions as "Congress" for donkey's years (at least 30, to my personal knowledge).

"ICTU" might require fewer keystrokes, but it's not a word: it's an initialism (despite the house style of the Irish times, which renders it as "Ictu").

You might as well say that "Nbru" is a word.
 
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