Penalty points, wrong location?

M

Moss123

Guest
Hey,

Got notification in the post of penalty points but the location of the offence is incorrect -what happens now?

I have no problem in paying the fine and taking the points, this is just a query.

Ta.
 
I'd pay the fine and take the points.

You could risk it, but you're depending on the following happening;

  • The summons is also issued with the incorrect location stated on it
  • The garda doesn't spot this error before the hearing
  • The judge is in a good mood and refuses to allow the garda to change the location on the summons.
What's more likely is that you will have higher points and a higher fine.


It's far easier to pay up and put it behind you (provided the fine is related to something you did, of course)

The other option is to ring the garda and tell him the error and see if you can sweettalk him into dropping it.
 
Thanks for the reply.

I had heard that I could just stand up in court and say I wasn't where I was supposed to be, according to the letter, and that it would be up to the garda to prove otherwise. But after reading your reply, I will go with my instincts before posting - take the points and learn the lesson, because we learn from our mistakes, or at least we should.

Thanks again, appreciate it.

M
 
Moss123 said:
Thanks for the reply.

I had heard that I could just stand up in court and say I wasn't where I was supposed to be, according to the letter, and that it would be up to the garda to prove otherwise. But after reading your reply, I will go with my instincts before posting - take the points and learn the lesson, because we learn from our mistakes, or at least we should.

Thanks again, appreciate it.

M
Click to expand...

What you heard can be done, but there are too many uncertainties as you're only at the penalty notice stage. If it was the day before a court hearing, the advice might be slightly different ;)
 
Well you are being accused of something which you know you did not do.
The guardai should get it right.ie location
Ok, if it is just a matter of a slight admistrative error you will be in trouble.
But if it is major Fight it, but dont be a fool and go in without a solictor. You need a solictor !!
Courts are just a game, if a solictor says something he may get away with it, if you say it, you will not get away with it.

However it does point to one major problem I have, WHY CANT THE GARDAI EVER GET IT RIGHT. !!! They have the training,

Does anyone remember the mccurtin affair in Kerry, they used an out of date warrant. My oh, my, the guards , involved here were the best of the best, they got it wrong. Legally the guards were the cause of this guy getting off. The whole trial was a sham. Were these guards retrained ? I bet not, yet they cost the state a fortune do to their obvious error. First day in law school would have pointed this out.

I have strayed off the topic, and I am sorry for that, but Each time I hear of Guards getting it wrong I get furious. It really is not acceptable. Lets face it they almost get it wrong every day.
 
I had the same problem with the wrong offence, location and time. They did get the date right though.

As it was an intercept, I wrote to the Supt. in the station concerned and heard nothing until the week before the summons arrived (concidence one presumes) saying it would be investigated.

Turned up in court on the day with photocopy of my letters and told the Guard I would be standing up and explaining all to judge. Case was immediately struck out by the Guard.

In my case though, the incorrect offense had more penalty points.
 
theengineer said:
Well you are being accused of something which you know you did not do.
The guardai should get it right.ie location
Ok, if it is just a matter of a slight admistrative error you will be in trouble.
But if it is major Fight it, but dont be a fool and go in without a solictor. You need a solictor !!
Courts are just a game, if a solictor says something he may get away with it, if you say it, you will not get away with it.

However it does point to one major problem I have, WHY CANT THE GARDAI EVER GET IT RIGHT. !!! They have the training,

Does anyone remember the mccurtin affair in Kerry, they used an out of date warrant. My oh, my, the guards , involved here were the best of the best, they got it wrong. Legally the guards were the cause of this guy getting off. The whole trial was a sham. Were these guards retrained ? I bet not, yet they cost the state a fortune do to their obvious error. First day in law school would have pointed this out.

I have strayed off the topic, and I am sorry for that, but Each time I hear of Guards getting it wrong I get furious. It really is not acceptable. Lets face it they almost get it wrong every day.
Click to expand...

A lot of exagerations here.

"WHY CANT THE GARDAI EVER GET IT RIGHT. !!! "

They get it right I would say 99% of the time.

"Lets face it they almost get it wrong every day"

Another gross exageration.
 
I beg to differ, The Mccurtin case is a typical example. I know of several more. If fairness to the local members they do their best but are overstreached, and annoyed at what is happening. I dont blame the local members. Lets face it, in a similar situation before mccurtin was visited, the locals renewed a warrant to visit a joe soap, they could see a problem, but the top dogs could not see a problem with theirs.

I cant comment on the figure 99% as I really dont know how this figure was calculated, and would suggest this figure of 99% is untrue.
 
theengineer said:
Well you are being accused of something which you know you did not do.
The guardai should get it right.ie location
Ok, if it is just a matter of a slight admistrative error you will be in trouble.
But if it is major Fight it, but dont be a fool and go in without a solictor. You need a solictor !!
Courts are just a game, if a solictor says something he may get away with it, if you say it, you will not get away with it.

However it does point to one major problem I have, WHY CANT THE GARDAI EVER GET IT RIGHT. !!! They have the training,

Does anyone remember the mccurtin affair in Kerry, they used an out of date warrant. My oh, my, the guards , involved here were the best of the best, they got it wrong. Legally the guards were the cause of this guy getting off. The whole trial was a sham. Were these guards retrained ? I bet not, yet they cost the state a fortune do to their obvious error. First day in law school would have pointed this out.

I have strayed off the topic, and I am sorry for that, but Each time I hear of Guards getting it wrong I get furious. It really is not acceptable. Lets face it they almost get it wrong every day.
Click to expand...

Give the Gardai a break! They do a tough job with limited resources.
 
LennyBriscoe said:
Give the Gardai a break! They do a tough job with limited resources.
Click to expand...

I agree with you they have a tough job. And their resources are limited. The state does not give them sufficient funds. I would even suggest there are some top dogs who need to be retrained.

I have total respect for the gardai at local level, they are fantastic. But are they given enough support from the top dogs! It seems not.
 
When you mean the location of the offence is incorrect, what do you mean? Is it a totally different place or is it that the legally incorrect name was used.

I heard of one case where someone was summons for speeding on the M50. The summons had he location as something along the lines of "Liffey Valley part of M50" and the defendent tried to argue in court that this is incorrect - this place doesnt exist because the official name of this stretch of the M50 is "Western Parkway" (I think). Judge was having none of it as even though the name was incorrect, the location was obvious to anyone.

I also came across a similar case of someone stopped on a road that intersected two postal districts - I think it was the Oscar Traynor Road which straddles Dublin 5 & Dublin 17. Summons had e.g. Oscar Traynor Rd D5 whereas the defendant was claiming that the section of the road where he was stopped was in D17. Again, the Judge was having none of it.
 
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