Knocknaheeny Regeneration Council Relocating Owner Occupiers

T

thebop

Registered User
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Hi folks,

Anyone have any information or experience associated with the Council offering owner ocuppiers another place to live so they can bulldoze existing dwellings and build more affordable housing. Folks have been living there for over 30 years and don't really wish to relocate.

They are being offered three areas where they can relocate but the areas do not suit. The are owner occupiers so what legal standing would they have if any?

Thanks,
TB
 
Hi, Its still not clear to me what situation you are talking about.

For a start - where is Knocknaheeny ? what local authority are you talking about.

Are the local authority attempting to get a compulsory purchase of these peoples
houses ? If so, are they not offering a price for the houses, not another house.

Is it a council estate ? How many properties are affected ?

You haven't given enough information for anyone to even guess what legal rights
these people have.
 
Knocknaheeny is in Cork City.

Cork City Council are planning to knock a lot of existing dwellings and re-home
the tennants in alternative accommodation. This will consist of new houses
recently purchased by the Council from developers who were struggling to
shift the units (but thats a whole different debate).

Some of the new houses are nearby but some are not so nearby and will be a
huge upheaval for some tennants. I thought these were all social houses and
didn't think they were owner occupier, but some of the tennants have put a lot
of their own money into these houses over the years and will now have to leave.
 
Thanks for the explanation.

The OP mentioned owner occupiers being offered alternative houses.

If these people have bought from the council, will the council not have
to go down the route of a compulsory purchase and buy the property.
Are the council offering to rehouse them as well as purchasing ?
Was there a clause in the contract when they bought the houses which
stipulated what happens in these circumstances ?
 
huskerdu said:
Thanks for the explanation.

The OP mentioned owner occupiers being offered alternative houses.

If these people have bought from the council, will the council not have
to go down the route of a compulsory purchase and buy the property.
Are the council offering to rehouse them as well as purchasing ?
Was there a clause in the contract when they bought the houses which
stipulated what happens in these circumstances ?
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To be honest, I don't know all of the details. I just heard some disgruntled
tennants on the local radio a few weeks ago after receiving letters outlining
the Councils' plan. If there are owner occupiers I'm sure a compulsory purchase order would be required to move these residents. It all seems
to be totally unnecessary and a huge expense of taxpayers money.
 
I thought these were all social houses and
didn't think they were owner occupier, but some of the tennants have put a lot
of their own money into these houses over the years and will now have to leave.
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Tennants are tennants - no different to anyone else renting - they have no "right" to live in the house indefinately. A council tennant is not an owner occupier no matter how much money they've spent on fixtures and fittings.
 
csirl said:
Tennants are tennants - no different to anyone else renting - they have no "right" to live in the house indefinately. A council tennant is not an owner occupier no matter how much money they've spent on fixtures and fittings.
Click to expand...

I agree, but its possible that some of these houses are occupied by people
who would have bought their houses from the council in the past. So maybe
not all are tennants as I thought.
 
Hi Folks,

Thanks for replies. Yes, the majority are tenants but i am refering to owner occupiers who purchased their property from the council over 10-15 years ago (hence there was never any clause in the contract when they bought the house)

Yes, the council are offering to house all tenants and owner occupiers but to be honest, the places they are suggesting are not suitable.

Also, the new houses are worth more in today's market so i'm hearing the Council are going to ask owner occupiers to pay the difference from their exisiting home and new intended home. Can this be correct especially if they had no intention to move in the first place?

Are they entitled to receive the value of their house by the council and find their own property?

Are they entitled to any compensation for the fact that they have been there for over 30 years and had no plan to ever move?

Thanks
 
thebop said:
Are they entitled to receive the value of their house by the council and find their own property?
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If they own the house the council will have to CPO it. Once they recieve the money they can do what they want. Not a chance of getting another council house though unless they buy it.

thebop said:
Are they entitled to any compensation for the fact that they have been there for over 30 years and had no plan to ever move?
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In a CPO order you get the market price. And let’s be honest, a house in the most famous council area in Cork won’t be getting a premium price. The market price is the fairest price and this is what you get And if you fight a CPO order and lose, you pay the legal costs.
If they don't want to pay the difference between their house and the new house, they are free to search somewhere else.

Hundreds of people have had farms split in two by motorways and national roads but all they get paid is the market value plus provisions sometimes to install tunnels for livestocks. That is all.
And they held land for hundreds of years, not the mere 30 plus years the residents in Knocknaheeny were there. All in the name of progress I suppose

They can get the market value, they will not get compensation. Sure what grounds do they have: “ the council ruined their plans”?
 
This was taken directly from www.citizensinformation.ie


Compulsory purchase

The compulsory acquisition of land takes place in Ireland to allow a public infrastructure project to go ahead for the common good. The most widely discussed applications of this refer to road improvement schemes and the [broken link removed] project in Dublin.
The compulsory purchase system is an extremely complex area. You should get the professional advice of a chartered surveyor as soon as you are served with a notice relating to a Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO). The fees charged by a chartered surveyor are part of a normal claim for compensation.
It is important to remember that you have the right to object, make representations, negotiate, refer to property arbitrators and have your objections heard.
Compensation

If your house and land is compulsorily purchased, you will be eligible for compensation to restore you as far as possible to the same position as you were in before the land and property was acquired.

  • You should be paid compensation based on the market value of your property.
  • You should be left in the same financial position after the CPO as you were before the process.
  • The compensation should reflect both the actual land acquired and the reduction in value, if any, of the retained area as a result of the CPO.
 
micmclo - i take your comments on board. By compensation i mean, my folks are nearly 60 and don't want to start another mortgage. As you said, house price value in that area is not great so this would force my folks to go and find another property which would then force my folks to start another mortgage even though their mortgage is well cleared off.

And for your comments, Sure what grounds do they have: “ the council ruined their plans”? This regeneration is nothing but a hindrance and can possible ruin their retirement period. Even with the houses, the council are offering, they will still need to get a new mortgage. This i find, is unreal.

nacho_libre - From the www.citizensinformation.ie it quotes "You should be left in the same financial position after the CPO as you were before the process" - does this imply that some compensation might in fact exist as my folks will need to find another home which will be of higher value than their existing home no matter where the new home will be?
 
thebop said:
micmclo - i take your comments on board. By compensation i mean, my folks are nearly 60 and don't want to start another mortgage. As you said, house price value in that area is not great so this would force my folks to go and find another property which would then force my folks to start another mortgage even though their mortgage is well cleared off.

And for your comments, Sure what grounds do they have: “ the council ruined their plans”? This regeneration is nothing but a hindrance and can possible ruin their retirement period. Even with the houses, the council are offering, they will still need to get a new mortgage. This i find, is unreal.
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Might have come across to strong, no offence intended.
I hear what you're saying about the regeneration but I'd imagine most of the tenants are looking forward to it but unfortunatly not such a big advantage for owner occupiers. The tenants are getting brand new homes but it's not so great for your parents if they are settled.

[broken link removed]
Archiseek is a website to with architecture and town planning. link here with feck all info but maybe start a post there and you'll get somewhere.

I only know the area from the Des Bishop shows where he visited various areas. Got pretty famous from that :)
 
No worries micmclo :) Just trying to find out what's best for them.

That's my post in Archiseek - Trying to get info from all angles :)
 
A look at the Ballymun Regeneration Website might provide some information, it's likely that some of the Ballymun residents were tenant-purchasers/homeowners so would have been in a similar situation to the Knocknaheeny residents?

[broken link removed]
 
By compensation i mean, my folks are nearly 60 and don't want to start another mortgage. As you said, house price value in that area is not great so this would force my folks to go and find another property which would then force my folks to start another mortgage even though their mortgage is well cleared off.
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Can your folks not buy a similar house in a similar area - then would not need to take out a mortgage? I'm sure CPO compensation includes stamp duty, removal costs etc. as well as the value of the house.
 
They would not prefer to buy in a similar area. If they are being forced to move now after all these years, they have said they would prefer to live near their grandchildren. I don't think they should be pigeon-holed into choosing a house which the council are offering which they don't like.

Has anyone here gone through a similar process?

Unlike the Ballymun regeneration website, there is nothing online or any information online regarding the knocknaheeny regeneration scheme. They have contacted Council via Solicitor and got a reply saying they will be dealt with in time.
 
They would not prefer to buy in a similar area.
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The idea of CPO is that people will be in no better or worse position after the CPO - similar area or market value of house + removal expenses is fair.

I don't think they should be pigeon-holed into choosing a house which the council are offering which they don't like.
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Then why dont they take the cash offer instead of the property swap option and choose their own new house?

Unlike the Ballymun regeneration website, there is nothing online or any information online regarding the knocknaheeny regeneration scheme.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that the tower blocks in Ballymun were never sold to residents - always in council ownership, so no CPOs necessary. I read somewhere recently that DCC were reviewing their policy of never selling individual council flats (only ever sold council houses to residents) which implies that none have been sold in the past.
 
I'm not sure if they have the choice to take a cash offer. Would this be possible that they would not be offered this if they wanted to live somewhere else?
 
thebop said:
I'm not sure if they have the choice to take a cash offer. Would this be possible that they would not be offered this if they wanted to live somewhere else?
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I think that's unlikely, unless someone is trying to pull a fast one. They are entitled to a payment to do with as they will, since they own the house and are free to sell. That would be my understanding of the CPO, but I have only been involved in it from the land side where the offer was equivalent land or market value of the land. In the case of land, there is a sting in the tail as CGT is owed on the cash sum, but I would doubt that applies to a PPR purchase.

They do own their house outright without any council interest in it?
 
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