The R Word

[cole]

Let's all blame the public sector.

Let's have redundancies. Let's have 40 pupils/teacher, less doctors/nurses etc. That'll certainly get the country back on its feet.

Our problem is that we didn't save money when we were flush so that we could spend it when we're in difficulties. But that would require joined up thinking.

 

[jimbob1234]

lets most definietely have lots and lots of redundnacies in the admin side of the public sector. obviously we cant let nurses go etc but what about admin staff in universities, institutes of technology, all over the healt board in the offices etc etc. they are all over staffed

 

[shanegl]

Jimbob1234 this public v private argument is here if you want to read it. I will echo what others have said...why don't you join the public sector if it's all it's cracked up to be? Anyhoo back to the recession....

Can someone not complain about the civil service (which we all pay for by the way) without wanting to work there? What's wrong with wanting a little value for money?

 

[MrKeane]

Look at motor tax, loads of goons in offices all over the country paid to collect the tax.

Then look at Ryanair and their ticketing system - no offices up and down the country. Need an office to pay your tax then pay a 30% premium.

Why is motortax collection not put online and outsourced to India? That would deliver better value for the customer.

 

[Treehouse]

This post will be deleted if not edited immediately, this thread has just been totally derailed. Can we get off this PS thing please? It's pretty tedious and only tangential to the topic at hand.

And can someone answer me this question:

What does our economy look like when you remove: a vibrant housing market, non-wealth creating sectors (PS, non-tradable services), multinationals (whose
domicile is not guaranteed) and consumer spending (which will drop as IRs rise and belts are tightened)?

What is left after that little lot is removed from the mix (given that they add only marginally to the wealth of the nation)? Agri, tourism, small businesses and....what else?

 

[television]

So you work more than you are contracted to do!

You have just admitted there is a problem - maybe not with you - but in the system.

If you can do 50% more than you are contracted for then your contract was a ridiculous document in the first place. In the private sector the person who agreed such a contract would be sanctioned or sacked and the contract would be changed .

- It ain't rocket science

What is certainly not rocket science is the notion of PUBLIC SERVICE. It is possible to work really hard as I do in my job and give extra aswell. This extra is nothing to do with extra productivity as you call it. It is because I feel a sence of Public service and vocation.

If you want to replace that sence of vocation and say i should get more money thats fine.

However I aggree that the public sector needs major reform to become more customer focused.

 

[television]

they will borrow to pay them cos the unions will keep acting up so the countries national debt will rise a lot, taxes will rise to counter this so in effect you and me will be paying their salaries. the usual crap

You may not be aware of it but public servents pay tax as well. You really need to basic training in financial matters. You have so many basic misconceptions and prejudices agains the PS

 

[cole]

Can someone not complain about the civil service (which we all pay for by the way) without wanting to work there? What's wrong with wanting a little value for money?

Absolutely.

It's the tired repetition of PS being lazy, short hours, long holidays, good pay etc. As I pointed out there is a whole thread devoted to this.

 

[Towger]

Why is motortax collection not put online and outsourced to India?

Umm... It is online, a nice expensive system by complements of IBM. Unlike Ryanair’s, which initially cost 3k and is a hell of a lot more complex. But why bother to have motor tax at all. It was initially introduced as a temporary measure last time we had to tighten our belts. It would be even cheaper and greener to increase tax on motor fuel to compensate. The same could be done with PRSI, this just increase PAYE/tax, and last I heard this move would free up over 3000 civil service jobs.

 

[dewdrop]

I often think that when the Irish have a problem they need someone to blame..e.g. the Brits in the past, the Church, the farmers etc and now the PS. I have no connection with the PS

 

[television]

I often think that when the Irish have a problem they need someone to blame..e.g. the Brits in the past, the Church, the farmers etc and now the PS. I have no connection with the PS

Good point.

 

[jimbob1234]

its all about value for money. there is none with the PS. they basically are there to provide us with a service that we pay for but i have rang the dept of education about various matters in the past and have gottne passed around for at least 10 mins, hung up on and gotten no call back after being promised one. the service is appaling

 

[television]

its all about value for money. there is none with the PS. they basically are there to provide us with a service that we pay for but i have rang the dept of education about various matters in the past and have gottne passed around for at least 10 mins, hung up on and gotten no call back after being promised one. the service is appaling

Can't say i disagree with you. Annoying as hell. THis happens in the private sector also.

 

[jimbob1234]

if it happens in the private sector then you can make a complaint and the person involved will be spoken to, and possibly will affect his / her wage review and position in the company. who can you complain about bad service in the public sector to? you wont get the persons managers name, if you write in it will be binned. if the person does get spoken to by their manager, it wont make them give better service as they will still get the same pay, same job security , same pension etc as anyone who does work hard. there are so many middle managers in there that its impossible to talk to the rite person. its just an over sized beauracracy with loads of red tape. making a complaint is a waste of time cos the person involved will still have a job while we are all out of work in the private sector

 

[television]

if it happens in the private sector then you can make a complaint and the person involved will be spoken to, and possibly will affect his / her wage review and position in the company. who can you complain about bad service in the public sector to? you wont get the persons managers name, if you write in it will be binned. if the person does get spoken to by their manager, it wont make them give better service as they will still get the same pay, same job security , same pension etc as anyone who does work hard. there are so many middle managers in there that its impossible to talk to the rite person. its just an over sized beauracracy with loads of red tape. making a complaint is a waste of time cos the person involved will still have a job while we are all out of work in the private sector

From personal experiences I know that if you have a rubbish stAFF member in the public services they can be got rid of. or will leave I have seen it happening. But I aggree with a lot of what you are saying. Reform needed. But most of the public sector are not afraid of reform and most are trying to do thier best and many beyond what is required from them.

 

[jimbob1234]

ok, i accept what your saying. i dont think they can be gotten rid of though or their salary reduced???

 

[television]

Salaries reduced no. But not given a promotion yes. maybe thats what makes them bitter and useless.

 

[jimbob1234]

maybe indeed.

 

[MrKeane]

Umm... It is online, a nice expensive system by complements of IBM. Unlike Ryanair’s, which initially cost 3k and is a hell of a lot more complex. But why bother to have motor tax at all. It was initially introduced as a temporary measure last time we had to tighten our belts. It would be even cheaper and greener to increase tax on motor fuel to compensate. The same could be done with PRSI, this just increase PAYE/tax, and last I heard this move would free up over 3000 civil service jobs.

I know there is an online option but a lot of it is still done via offices around the country. Slap a 30% premium on office transactions and phase it out.

Agree about motor tax - abolish it and increase tax on fuel.

I think we should outsource the public service to India completely. Send the gardai and army to training college over there, decentralise most government departments to India, the country would save a mint.

 

[starlite68]

Thank God someones pointed this out! Recession! Its only going to be a recession in the strictest technical sense. -0.4% for one year after stunning growth for 12yrs is nothing. Even if the ESRI are wrong and it's -1, or -2... thats comparitively little. Yes people will lose jobs and in vast numbers, but at least as a nation we have built up substantial personal savings.

In a yrs time after 3yrs of university and a top class degree i'll be out in the real world starting off on €380 - €390 a week

what makes you sure you will walk into a job in a years time? i have two friends with university degrees and they are both unemployed now for the last few months...in a years time jobs will most likely be a lot harder to find than they are now...even for people with degrees. i hope all works out well for you in the future, but dont go taking it as a given!