buying share of New York pub.

D

dmc1

Guest
I am thinking of becoming a 'sleeping' partner in a new bar business in New York with two other people (my cousins who both work in the bar business). I will be putting up 25%of the start up costs. What % of the profits should I expect? Is there a standard proceedure or contract for this kind of thing?
 
Re: Partnership Query?

Tip-toe carefully here. Some questions: Is this business incorporated? If so what is your share capital position? Is there a well written business plan accompanied with proffessionally reviewed financials? Who sits on the Board of Directors? How are the business decisions made within the Company/Partnership? How is conflict resolution managed? WHO is the final desicion maker when it comes down to needing to make a potentially unpopular stratigic desicion? What happens when the new business needs more money (normal situation for a young business?) Who decides when to either issue dividends back to the 'shareholder-partners' or instead (perhaps) plow all the profits back into the business? What kind of access do you have to the financial books? Monthly, quarterly annually? What if your relatives aren't running the business well ..... What is the method to replace family managers with (if needed) non-family professionals?

As far as the precentage of ownership question it has allot to do with whether the other owners are taking a salary and/or making more 'work' decisions.

In my opinion NEVER go into a partnership. Create a limited or incorporated company to provide some legal structure AND protect you personally. In the food industry all you need is one food posioning to reach deep thru the business veil direct to the actual owners in a lawsuit. Not to mention the pockets of emotional 'quicksand' in working with family in business. No matter these are just my thoughts.....Good Luck with your venture.
 
Re: Partnership Query?

Make sure you agree an exit strategy up front, i.e. agree what happens when one person wants to get out of the deal.
 
Re: Partnership Query?

Tip-toe carefully here. Some questions: Is this business incorporated? If so what is your share capital position? Is there a well written business plan accompanied with proffessionally reviewed financials? Who sits on the Board of Directors? How are the business decisions made within the Company/Partnership? How is conflict resolution managed? WHO is the final desicion maker when it comes down to needing to make a potentially unpopular stratigic desicion? What happens when the new business needs more money (normal situation for a young business?) Who decides when to either issue dividends back to the 'shareholder-partners' or instead (perhaps) plow all the profits back into the business? What kind of access do you have to the financial books? Monthly, quarterly annually? What if your relatives aren't running the business well ..... What is the method to replace family managers with (if needed) non-family professionals?

As far as the precentage of ownership question it has allot to do with whether the other owners are taking a salary and/or making more 'work' decisions.

In my opinion NEVER go into a partnership. Create a limited or incorporated company to provide some legal structure AND protect you personally. In the food industry all you need is one food posioning to reach deep thru the business veil direct to the actual owners in a lawsuit. Not to mention the pockets of emotional 'quicksand' in working with family in business. No matter these are just my thoughts.....Good Luck with your venture.

Excellent advice. Could this be incorporated into a FAQ for ask about business?

To reiterate the point made above about profit share; if the working directors take a big salary there will be very little profit, if they take small salaries then there will (hopefully) be a large profit. Basically profit share agreements are meaningless unless they are part of a comprehensive overall agreement.
If you want to make it simple just agree a directors fee which returns your investment over X number of years.
dmc1, It looks like you are basically giving your cousins a lump of cash to invest in a situation of (almost) blind trust. As long as you know them and know that your investment is completely at the mercy of their ability and integrity then fine. Just don’t kid yourself that you will have any real control over how they behave.
 
Assuming you are based in Ireland, have you sorted out the tax position?

it seems very complex to me.

Why not just lend them the money at a fairly high interest rate?

Being a sleeping partner in a pub where you live thousands of miles away is not a good idea. If things go wrong, you won't be able to resolve them easily.

Brendan
 
Yes you're spot on Brendan. The challenge in part is the distance but the BIG challenge isthe fact that it's 'family' and it seems to me that the actual business/investment structure is not clearly defined which leaves many potential vulnerable blind spots ESPECIALLY when it's family members..... plan the exit and conflict resolution in advance...always, DMC1, always....both in Love and in Business!
 
good program on RTE the other night called "paddy whacked",it was all about Irish gangsters in America,covered a lot of New York,very scary stuff.May need to know who the sleeping partners are.
 
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