I don't understand how calling someone 'Doctor' puts them in a superior position no matter what they call me. My doctor is a doctor, so I call him 'Doctor', whether he chooses to address me by my first or last name is irrelevant. I am his equal either way.
How do you address your doctor?
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truthseeker
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Exactly - and its a testament to my own (and yours Vanilla) good manners that we choose to address someone with their title no matter what they choose to address us as.
If I met a Baron Id call him Baron, if I met a priest Id call him Father (despite me having no religious beliefs). Its just a matter of having good manners IMO.
Purple - enjoyed the bit of history re surgeons, I am being sliced open by my own consultant surgeon shortly, Ill ask him for a quick hair do while Im in there
truthseeker
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That is exactly how I address people, if I dont know the surname I call them Sir, Miss or Madam until I do know it or am invited to use first names.
But it is not common practice to address a person by their occupation- this only applies to some occupations only- like Doctor. I'd find it very strange if someone started addressing me as 'solicitor'. Most people address me by my first name, some people address me by my second name. Either way it doesn't bother me.
Fair play bud.
My original point is not related to the doctor's occupation - more to his/her title.
If the logic of addressing someone by their formal title is sound, why isn't it universally applied? If it was we'd address each other as mister/mrs, etc if we knew the person and as sir/madam if we didn't. It'd be like living in a 50s movie, for heaven's sake.
I started work in the public service in the early 80s when the last of formalities were still present. Older people in fairly junior management position were still being addressed as Mr/Mrs etc and it was a welcome sign of maturity and confidence that their successors demanded no such formality.
In today's society, I think it's excessively meek to wait until invited before addressing someone (anyone) formally. For example, if a friend were to introduce another friend of his to me as say John Smith, I wouldn't feel it necessary to call him Mr Smith until he said otherwise. If he doesn't like me calling him John, he's free to say so.
An intersting angle mentioned earlier about the nature of the vendor/buyer relationship in the case of doctors. The same protocols don't seem to exist as for most other customer relationships.
But we must remember that this perceived lack of formality seems to be a peculiarly Irish phenomenon - most of continental Europe, AFAIK, retain quite formal terms of address in all social and business scenarios unless a degree of familiarity is established. The English too are considerably more formal than the Irish in this respect.
Agreed, many times, I've heard English people booking in hotels or otherwise giving name and when asked for the name refer to themselves as "Mr" or "Mrs" "Surname" with no first name being given at all. I would never give my name in that fashion.
I do some business in Germany and I agree that it's much more formal but everyone is addressed by their title. For Example "Herr Doctor" would use "Herr Director", "Herr Engineer" etc when talking to their patients. If first names were used they would be used by both parties.
According to this we shouldn't be calling them 'Doctor' atall.
Medical profession (Wikipedia)
The term doctor has always been reserved for people who have obtained a doctoral degree in a specific subject, therefore it is incorrect to refer to a person with a medical degree as a Doctor. With the passage of time however physicians craved the status of the real doctors and begin to adopt it as their own. All persons who earn a medical degree are improperly called "doctor", although from the nineteenth century onward, the term "doctor" has been commonly used as a synonym for "physician" in Anglophone and many other countries. This term is now commonly used as a title of address for physicians, whether or not they hold a Doctor of Medicine degree. The primary medical qualification in the UK and in many Commonwealth countries are the 'Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery' degrees (MB BS, BM BS, MB BCh, MB ChB, BM BCh or MB BChir, depending on the University granting the award). In the UK the title "Dr" is officially conferred by the General Medical Council to graduates whose names are included on the list of 'registered medical practitioners', a prerequisite to medical practice in the UK. After qualification, medical practitioners may read for the postgraduate research degree of 'Doctor of Medicine'. By convention however, if a practitioner qualifies as a Surgeon he/she will drop the
Medical profession (Wikipedia)
The term doctor has always been reserved for people who have obtained a doctoral degree in a specific subject, therefore it is incorrect to refer to a person with a medical degree as a Doctor. With the passage of time however physicians craved the status of the real doctors and begin to adopt it as their own. All persons who earn a medical degree are improperly called "doctor", although from the nineteenth century onward, the term "doctor" has been commonly used as a synonym for "physician" in Anglophone and many other countries. This term is now commonly used as a title of address for physicians, whether or not they hold a Doctor of Medicine degree. The primary medical qualification in the UK and in many Commonwealth countries are the 'Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery' degrees (MB BS, BM BS, MB BCh, MB ChB, BM BCh or MB BChir, depending on the University granting the award). In the UK the title "Dr" is officially conferred by the General Medical Council to graduates whose names are included on the list of 'registered medical practitioners', a prerequisite to medical practice in the UK. After qualification, medical practitioners may read for the postgraduate research degree of 'Doctor of Medicine'. By convention however, if a practitioner qualifies as a Surgeon he/she will drop the
We used to say in collge that a medical doctor was an honary title as they don't actually have a doctorate. I have a PhD and only use the title 'Dr' when applying for a loan, credit card, etc. It works a treat
What does bug me however is the increasing trend for physiotherpists, occupational therapists, dentists, vets, etc to call themselves 'doctor'. At what point does a bachelor's degree become the equivlent of a PhD?
What does bug me however is the increasing trend for physiotherpists, occupational therapists, dentists, vets, etc to call themselves 'doctor'. At what point does a bachelor's degree become the equivlent of a PhD?
We used to say in collge that a medical doctor was an honary title as they don't actually have a doctorate. I have a PhD and only use the title 'Dr' when applying for a loan, credit card, etc. It works a treat
What does bug me however is the increasing trend for physiotherpists, occupational therapists, dentists, vets, etc to call themselves 'doctor'. At what point does a bachelor's degree become the equivlent of a PhD?
If a physiotherapists, occupational therapists, dentists, vets, etc called themselves 'doctor' when talking to me (in a professional capacity) I would ask them to explain why they did so.
truthseeker
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My physiotherapist does have a PhD, she calls herself Dr, I do too.
Does she talk to herself much?
Maybe she should see a doctor - with or without a Phd.
Having worked in hospitals for years, I know they probably have PhDs. With qualification inflation everyone will have one soon.
The job title used as a form of address..........when I was young (1960s) the elderly unmarried lady living in the house across the way was known as Nurse Hennessy to all and sundry - and that's what we all called her. All my parents friends were known to us as 'Aunt' or 'Uncle' whatever; my piano teacher was Miss Davis. Now any young git phoning me feels free to address me by my first name and I don't feel able to say 'call me Ms Gordanus'.
The registrars were all known by their first names; SOME of the consultants too.....but you had to be careful!
I work in a simlar sector and I have to agree. A PhD is like a leaving cert now, everybody has one
Well, not quite, but it does bug my friends with masters degrees to say so. And rightly so. What annoys me is a plaque outside a dental surgery with something like:
Dr. Mary Murphy, BDentSc (or something similar).
Probably wouldn't botehr me so much if I hadn't spent 4 years getting my PhD.