Reducing drink drive limit to 50mg from 80mg

I see what you mean, ie "Mouth alcohol breaks down within 20 mins" not "Mouth alcohol breaks down in 20 mins." if you get my drift.

Still, if your theory holds true, you have to ask why did Noel Brett of the RSA say the opposite on national radio not long ago.
 
ubiquitous said:
I see what you mean, ie "Mouth alcohol breaks down within 20 mins" not "Mouth alcohol breaks down in 20 mins." if you get my drift.

Still, if your theory holds true, you have to ask why did Noel Brett of the RSA say the opposite on national radio not long ago.
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What did Noel Brett say?
 
I stated this at the outset of the thread

Noel Brett from the Road Safety Authority said on Morning Ireland about a year ago that a zero alcohol limit was unenforceable and probably unconstitutional in Ireland as alcohol is sometimes created naturally in the human body and even a tetotaller could find themselves registering a small level of alcohol in their system.
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He also mentioned the effect of mouthwashes, although I didn't mention this particular point earlier.
 
ubiquitous said:
I stated this at the outset of the thread



He also mentioned the effect of mouthwashes, although I didn't mention this particular point earlier.
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sorry ubiquitous - i was in a different place there - i agree after previous discussion that zero is not practical.

i thought you meant a theory about the 20 mins and mouth alcohol.
 
ubiquitous said:
Not to worry, I think I was in a different place there myself :)
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On reflection of this whole thread I think that now I agree to zero tolerance being impractical.

But back to the original question - 80mg to 50mg.
Im coming from the perspective that I dont drink at all if I want to bring the car - which is why, to me, 80 to 50 seems like no big deal because its 7up all the way in my world if Ive the car with me.

In practical terms i means around 1.5 pint to 1 pint? (correct me if Im wrong).

Does this amount really matter so much to people?
 
truthseeker said:
On reflection of this whole thread I think that now I agree to zero tolerance being impractical.

But back to the original question - 80mg to 50mg.
Im coming from the perspective that I dont drink at all if I want to bring the car - which is why, to me, 80 to 50 seems like no big deal because its 7up all the way in my world if Ive the car with me.

In practical terms i means around 1.5 pint to 1 pint? (correct me if Im wrong).

Does this amount really matter so much to people?
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Well thats an "im alright jack " perspective, i dont drink so it wont affect me therefore i support it,

you could also use the same argument for many things, eg reducing social welfare,... im coming from the perspective that im not on the dole, so reducing social seems like no big deal to me.

... Its the same argument just because it doesn't affect you but affects other people doesn't make it right, thats the argument a child would make,

....maybe the government is taking us for children
 
truthseeker said:
On reflection of this whole thread I think that now I agree to zero tolerance being impractical.

But back to the original question - 80mg to 50mg.
Im coming from the perspective that I dont drink at all if I want to bring the car - which is why, to me, 80 to 50 seems like no big deal because its 7up all the way in my world if Ive the car with me.

In practical terms i means around 1.5 pint to 1 pint? (correct me if Im wrong).

Does this amount really matter so much to people?
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The issue isn't really the difference in the volume of alcohol that one can drink.

The real problem is the severity of the consequences (including losing the right to drive, and possibly one's livelihood) if a driver makes an honest mistake and ends up marginally over the limit - particularly given that blood/alcohol readings can vary as much due to outside factors like food consumption patterns or whether one is (knowingly or unknowingly) coming down with a cold, as opposed to how much alcohol they have consumed.

Every decrease in the permitted limit leads to an exponential rise in this risk.

What has happened in rural Ireland within the past 18 months or so is that the vast majority of responsible & moderate drinkers have totally cut out driving to and from the pub. The pubs are quieter as a result which means that the rest of the pub customers don't bother going as often, as it is cheaper and less depressing to drink at home rather than in an empty pub. The vicious circle repeats itself to the extent that most of the time the only people in the average rural or small town pub are the hardcore drinkers and alcoholics, who are continuing to drink and drive to their hearts' content. Meanwhile the policymakers wonder why on earth the road fatality statistics refuse to fall, and everyone else wonders why an air of irrational pessimism and general despondency seems to have taken a firm grip on the populace...
 
ubiquitous said:
What has happened in rural Ireland within the past 18 months or so is that the vast majority of responsible & moderate drinkers have totally cut out driving to and from the pub. The pubs are quieter as a result which means that the rest of the pub customers don't bother going as often, as it is cheaper and less depressing to drink at home rather than in an empty pub. The vicious circle repeats itself to the extent that most of the time the only people in the average rural or small town pub are the hardcore drinkers and alcoholics, who are continuing to drink and drive to their hearts' content.
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I found myself in a busy, thriving pub in small-town UK at 9.30 in the morning, one day last week - see [broken link removed] for more details. Maybe the Irish pub owners need to get a bit more creative.

In the broader issue, I don't see any point in lowering the current limit until we are actually enforcing it.
 
ubiquitous said:
The real problem is the severity of the consequences (including losing the right to drive, and possibly one's livelihood) if a driver makes an honest mistake and ends up marginally over the limit - particularly given that blood/alcohol readings can vary as much due to outside factors like food consumption patterns or whether one is (knowingly or unknowingly) coming down with a cold, as opposed to how much alcohol they have consumed.
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This is an excellent point - it would be extremely easy to make an honest mistake when you are talking such low volumes to begin with.

I do hear you about rural drinking and the pubs being quieter, its not just rural areas, the 3 local pubs (urban) near me have also become quieter (possibly as a result of the smoking ban also) - but the people drinking in them with cars in the car parks ARE the hard core drinkers who have never changed their behaviour.

You do present a well balanced debate Ubiquitous and there are many points you have raised that are valid. The situation is not quite as black and white as it seems at first appraisal.
 
but the people drinking in them with cars in the car parks ARE the hard core drinkers who have never changed their behaviour.
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It is these people that the Gardaí need to spend their time targeting.
 
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