Castro steps down.

[stir crazy]

I can only speak from personal experience over the last 10 years dealing with customers in the USA, Europe, the UK, Asia and Ireland

Are you now talking about customers or the business people or a nation of people on a personal level or governments in particular or what ? Each particular case, whichever you choose can be examined in the light of day and I would think be easily refuted Stereotyping a diverse group as a solution is always the easy way out.

They are also far more honourable in their dealing than Irish people and well stick to their word.
Basically they can make clear business focused decisions faster and better than their Irish counterparts.
They also have a far better technical and commercial understanding of what they are doing. In my experience the only other country that is at their level is Holland.

I have to put my hand on my heart here. I think that whole paragraph is a rather arrogant statement.
Way to go stereotyping a whole diverse nation of people! Cheers!

 

[room305]

Purple, you really believe that these comments are acceptable?
- Irish people are 'less honourable' than American people.
- Americans can make clear business focused decisions faster and better than their Irish counterparts.
- Americans have a far better technical and commercial understanding of what they are doing.

I wouldn't defend Purple if he made the claim that all Irish people are less honourable than all Americans but he should be perfectly entitled to relate his own personal experience of dealing with companies from both countries. On a personal level I've found most Iranians I've had dealings with to be quite arrogant but usually extremely well educated and quite charming for all that. But then I've only met six (all men of course) so I'm hardly dealing with the representative majority of the country (as they are mostly British-educated ex-pats). All the same, let's hope I haven't offended Mr. Ahmadinejad enough to take a defamation case ...

Purple's comments can be viewed in a similar light - he's dealing with American businesses and Irish businesses, possibly within one industry. Those representing Irish businesses he finds to be generally less honourable than their American counterparts. Frankly, this doesn't surprise me in the slightest - ever tried to buy a house in the last few years? Take a taxi when you didn't know the way? God forbid you should ever call a plumber ...

If you don't understand what is wrong with them, try replacing 'Irish' with 'Black', or 'Jew' etc.

Your willingness to plumb new depths is so edacious it's almost admirable. All that's needed now to shut down the debate entirely is for someone to mention this guy.

This isn't communist Cuba. People generally don't end up in court for expressing a personal opinion. The same cannot be said for people who accuse others of engaging in illegal activity.

 

[Purple]

Are you now talking about customers or the business people or a nation of people on a personal level or governments in particular or what ? Each particular case, whichever you choose can be examined in the light of day and I would think be easily refuted Stereotyping a diverse group as a solution is always the easy way out.

I related my experience as an Irish person doing business in Ireland and abroad. That's all.
It was not my intent to offend so apologies if I did but it still does not change my experience. I didn’t say that Irish people were not honourable; I merely related that in my experience in business Americans have been more honourable. That is not in indictment of the Irish people just as saying that one member of a family is very clever does not mean that the rest of the family are stupid.

I have to put my hand on my heart here. I think that whole paragraph is a rather arrogant statement.
Way to go stereotyping a whole diverse nation of people! Cheers!

I am Irish, how can that statement be arrogant?

 

[Purple]

Purple, you really believe that these comments are acceptable?
- Irish people are 'less honourable' than American people.
- Americans can make clear business focused decisions faster and better than their Irish counterparts.
- Americans have a far better technical and commercial understanding of what they are doing.

I didn't say any of those things. You are being disingenuous. I’ll try to explain this again; I expressed a personal opinion of people that I have met and/or talked to. I did not offer judgement on a nation or race.
Feel free to put forward the same nonsensical arguments, I will continue to re-state the facts, but don’t expect me to take your points seriously while I’m doing it.

 

[stir crazy]

I am Irish, how can that statement be arrogant?

I am sure you didnt intend to offend however I found the statement to be arrogant no matter who would say it, as it is (apart from your saving claim of personal experience) a contempt for the facts.

I didn't say any of those things. You are being disingenuous. I’ll try to explain this again; I expressed a personal opinion of people that I have met and/or talked to. I did not offer judgement on a nation or race.
Feel free to put forward the same nonsensical arguments, I will continue to re-state the facts, but don’t expect me to take your points seriously while I’m doing it.

In no way do I want to troll or flame anyone; it's just what I see; but I can understand leghorns' point in the following fashion. Suppose someone posted :' I'm not prejudiced but all the blacks/Irish/Jews (insert label) I ever met in my life (personal experience justification/rationalisation) were inferior (insert negative label).'

Ok so now how does that sound ?

Ok if It's personal experience then thats just an unlucky experience but theres really no call to post something like that as it doesn't really help anyone. Far better in my view to highlight specific business practices which can be changed for the better and keep any personal element out of it instead of attaching a sweeping statement to something highly personal (and unchangeable too) for a lot of people.

 

[Purple]

It's funny how people are so sensitive about comments that can be taken to be negative about Irish people (especially if they are positive about Americans). I don't think I would have had the same heat if I said that in my experience restaurants are better in France. That would not mean that I am arrogant (since I am not French this would have been impossible) it would simply have been a statement of opinion based on my own experience.
The same goes for my experience in business. I have found that Irish people, in general (in business), are better than some but not as good as Americans of Dutch people.
To suggest that this opinion is in some way racist is stupid and to suggest that it is arrogant is to misunderstand the definition of the word since arrogance requires a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others. Since the opinion I expressed was not about myself, my business or my country (or anything that I can claim an association with) then it cannot be arrogant.

 

[room305]

Far better in my view to highlight specific business practices which can be changed for the better and keep any personal element out of it instead of attaching a sweeping statement to something highly personal (and unchangeable too) for a lot of people.

For all that I don't see Purple getting the same response if he posted a statement that in his dealings with British companies he found them to be generally less technically-adept than Irish companies.

 

[stir crazy]

For all that I don't see Purple getting the same response if he posted a statement that in his dealings with British companies he found them to be generally less technically-adept than Irish companies.

Attempting to shift the focus of blame for a fallacious sweeping statement without substance about Irish people was a good try but I'm not buying it and I don't believe anyone else will either. If anyone has posted an inaccuracy about Britain it should be challenged. It does not do to avoid the issue of the fallacious statement and start posting more sweeping narrow opinions.
Purple posted something and got a suitable response from the subjects of his sweeping statements.
Most people worth talking to are interested in the facts and truth. Therefore posting a statement and not backing it up with fact was the first mistake.

 

[Caveat]

So, this Castro guy then...

 

[oopsbuddy]

So, this Castro guy then...

Very good!

 

[room305]

Most people worth talking to are interested in the facts and truth. Therefore posting a statement and not backing it up with fact was the first mistake.

Ah come on, he wasn't presenting evidence at a judicial hearing, he cleared stated that this was his opinion based on personal experience.

Imagine somebody told you that in their opinion French wine (and therefore French winemakers) was superior to its Australian counterparts. Would you demand they retract their statement, claiming it to be both arrogant, fallacious and possibly hinting at some sort of underlying Oceanian racism?

By all means deride the authenticity of Purple's opinion, but let's not attack someone just because they have one.

 

[stir crazy]

By all means deride the authenticity of Purple's opinion, but let's not attack someone just because they have one.

How is anyone being attacked personally apart from a group of Irish professionals who would be proud of their work and hurt by an insinuation of widespread unprofessionalism ? But if you want to go there, then whats' the quote below all about ?

For all that I don't see Purple getting the same response if he posted a statement that in his dealings with British companies

I think the track record of this country over the last 10 years, progressing both socially and in business is far more informative about us than an unsubstantiated posting on a internet forum such as that.

So, this Castro guy then...

A very interesting guy. Does anyone recommend a biography or book about Castro ?

 

[EvilDoctorK]

To drag this back on topic a bit .. I loved this story from RTE News about life in cuba - no toasters allowed until 2010 !

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0313/cuba.html

I read some interesing bits and pieces recently about oft quoted comparisons about how Cuba is so much better in terms of Human development than X other poor countries like Guatemala, Haiti etc.

While this may be true (and it's open to debate on some points ... you can likely but a toaster in Guatemala!) the killer point for me is that before Castro came along Cuba was as well off as Portugal & richer parts of Mexico amongst other places ... it's fallen so far behind these places that it's now compared it to countries that 40 years ago it was much more developed than in order to prove the success of the revolution etc. ... which seems to me a bit wrong.

 

[Purple]

Attempting to shift the focus of blame for a fallacious sweeping statement without substance about Irish people was a good try but I'm not buying it and I don't believe anyone else will either.

There's no need to project your insecurities onto "everyone else".
The comparison with an opinion on French wine is accurate. You cannot know if my opinion is fallacious or not as you don't know me or the extent of my experiences in business which informs my opinion. My comment was clearly framed and expresses as an opinion based on personal experience, therefore it was not sweeping and, as an opinion, did not need substantiation beyond my own experience. Please choose your words more carefully in future.

If anyone has posted an inaccuracy about Britain it should be challenged. It does not do to avoid the issue of the fallacious statement and start posting more sweeping narrow opinions.
Purple posted something and got a suitable response from the subjects of his sweeping statements.

My opinion is based on my experiences over many years. This may not tally with your own insecurities and bias about Americans but it is neither fallacious nor sweeping. As you do not know me you are not in a position to make such comments.

Most people worth talking to are interested in the facts and truth. Therefore posting a statement and not backing it up with fact was the first mistake.

Most people worth talking to do not insult other posters when they disagree with an opinion which has been expressed. My first mistake was engaging with someone who was not willing or able to make a distinction between expressing an opinion and making a statement of fact.

 

[Purple]

To drag this back on topic a bit .. I loved this story from RTE News about life in cuba - no toasters allowed until 2010 !

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0313/cuba.html

I read some interesing bits and pieces recently about oft quoted comparisons about how Cuba is so much better in terms of Human development than X other poor countries like Guatemala, Haiti etc.

While this may be true (and it's open to debate on some points ... you can likely but a toaster in Guatemala!) the killer point for me is that before Castro came along Cuba was as well off as Portugal & richer parts of Mexico amongst other places ... it's fallen so far behind these places that it's now compared it to countries that 40 years ago it was much more developed than in order to prove the success of the revolution etc. ... which seems to me a bit wrong.

Good post. The bottom line is that Cuba is under the heel of a totalitarian dictatorship. Even if they did have a good economy this would be no substitute for freedom.
We in Ireland generally take freedom for granted; most of the world doesn’t have that luxury.

 

[z103]

Good post. The bottom line is that Cuba is under the heel of a totalitarian dictatorship. Even if they did have a good economy this would be no substitute for freedom.
We in Ireland generally take freedom for granted; most of the world doesn’t have that luxury.

wrt 'freedom', please refer to;
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=582548&postcount=60

 

[stir crazy]

There's no need to project your insecurities onto "everyone else".

Wishful thinking on your part. Whatever my psychological health you still fail to back up your statements with any facts whatsoever and until then I am entitled to disagree with them. Attempting to artificially create some slur that I lack self confidence is pathetic in my view.
Please choose your words more carefully in future.

bias about Americans but it is neither fallacious nor sweeping.

To try to suggest I have any bias against Americans is laughable. I consider Americans as equals with similar values to ourselves. This is not even relevant to your fallacious ideas unsupported by any fact whatsoever.
I consider any suggestion that I do not like America to be Muck Slinging. You have no concept of the depth of my relationship with America and with Americans at all levels of society including friends who are serving in Iraq right now 'burning poop' (look it up). Like the ideal America my personal ideals are of truth ,justice, freedom and fairness.
Muck Slinging will not advance any of the fallacious arguments which you have failed to back up with any facts whatsoever. You have failed to advance your narrow unsupported views and I find stooping to that level quite disappointing. As you do not know me you are not in a position to make such comments.

My first mistake was engaging with someone who was not willing or able to make a distinction between expressing an opinion and making a statement of fact.

If I was you I would respect someones right to a counter opinion without stooping to insults and unfounded accusations about where someones loyalties and sentiments lie.
You say your opinion is based on your experiences over many years, yet you seem to have created some ridiculous biased opinion of me over a miniscule length of time which will not distract an intelligent reader from the facts. If you wish to win over the lower IQ (Jerry Springer) section of the audience then good luck.


Now lets get back to Castro please.

 

[Purple]

Wishful thinking on your part. Whatever my psychological health you still fail to back up your statements with any facts whatsoever and until then I am entitled to disagree with them. Attempting to artificially create some slur that I lack self confidence is pathetic in my view.
Please choose your words more carefully in future.





To try to suggest I have any bias against Americans is laughable. I consider Americans as equals with similar values to ourselves. This is not even relevant to your fallacious ideas unsupported by any fact whatsoever.
I consider any suggestion that I do not like America to be Muck Slinging. You have no concept of the depth of my relationship with America and with Americans at all levels of society including friends who are serving in Iraq right now 'burning poop' (look it up). Like the ideal America my personal ideals are of truth ,justice, freedom and fairness.
Muck Slinging will not advance any of the fallacious arguments which you have failed to back up with any facts whatsoever. You have failed to advance your narrow unsupported views and I find stooping to that level quite disappointing. As you do not know me you are not in a position to make such comments.



If I was you I would respect someones right to a counter opinion without stooping to insults and unfounded accusations about where someones loyalties and sentiments lie.
You say your opinion is based on your experiences over many years, yet you seem to have created some ridiculous biased opinion of me over a miniscule length of time which will not distract an intelligent reader from the facts. If you wish to win over the lower IQ (Jerry Springer) section of the audience then good luck.


Now lets get back to Castro please.

It should be obvious to you that, for many obvious reasons, I will not be relating experiences I have had with customers and suppliers over the last number of years. If you don’t get that then you need to ask a few friends to read this thread and explain it to you.
Your entire contribution to this thread has been an attack on an opinion that I have which you, for no logical reason, seem to think should be backed up by facts. You fail to understand the difference between facts and opinions and in failing you have, in a ham-fisted way, thrown insults and accusations which are entirely groundless.
When I question your motives for this you throw a tantrum...

Let's get back to Castro.

 

[stir crazy]

When I question your motives for this you throw a tantrum...

Let's get back to Castro.

It's gone far beyond your original groundless opinion. When you started saying I was biased in some way against America you went too far and labored in some way to throw muck at my character to distract from the actual issue of your groundless opinion. Then you quote my own plea asking to get back to Castro. Smooth indeed ! Everyone knows that a person is entitled to an opinion but you throw a tantrum whenever your opinion is challenged. I have a problem with all of this.

Lets indeed get back to Castro

 

[Purple]

It's gone far beyond your original groundless opinion.

My opinion is based on 10-15 years experience dealing with Irish, American and other European countries. Therefore it is not groundless. Your experience may differ but they may also not be groundless. I think the core problem may be a lack of understanding of language on your part. Opinion and fact are not the same thing. At no time did I present my opinion as fact.