Difference between TDi, 16v, FSI and TDi PD or D (or even PD vRS) diesels

[Marie]

I am completely bemused. My last car was a 1.9 TDi diesel and though I am usually without passengers or heavy loads I found I needed that power for my particular routes which included some long journeys on busy fast motorways.

My short-list for a new vehicle include a 2.2litre diesel, a 1.9TDi and a 1.9 TDi PD. I've test-driven them and there is a huge difference between the 2.2 and the others. However I've had confusing advice. Would the 2.2 litre be a waste and unnecessary diesel consumption? Also what is the difference between a (for example) 1.4 TDi PD 80 and a 1.9 TDi PD 2? What do these letters, and things like "FSI" stand for as this also often appears as part of the car description.

One last question. Is it a myth that German diesels are the most reliable? Recently someone assured me that these had been overtaken by French diesels (which I found it difficult to believe). Where do Korean and Japanese diesels come in this league of excellence..........or is it all bunkum?

 

[Caveat]

I'll leave the model variation questions to RS2K, Ford Jedi and a few but...

Is it a myth that German diesels are the most reliable?

Yes. If you are considering a diesel in and around the 2L mark: Honda Accord. No question.

 

[Marie]

Thanks Caveat. My short-list includes Honda Civic 2.2 i-CTDi Sport and Volkswagen Golf 2.0 FSI but I'm going dizzy trying to work out what all these thigns mean - like i-VTEC, GSI, CDX, FSI, 16v, and wondering what a "second-generation common rail-engine" is and why its so important. Any help with the arcane vocabulary of the internal combustion engine would be really welcome...........otherwise I'll never get round to signing for the vehicle

 

[Marie]

I'll leave the model variation questions to RS2K, Ford Jedi and a few but...



Yes. If you are considering a diesel in and around the 2L mark: Honda Accord. No question.

...........but isn't the Honda a Japanese diesel engine now? I thought they used to use German but recently (the 'New Shape') are their own, no?

 

[Caveat]

...........but isn't the Honda a Japanese diesel engine now? I thought they used to use German but recently (the 'New Shape') are their own, no?

As far as I know all Honda engines are Honda and have been for some time - their petrol engines are legendary (in boats and lawnmowers too) and their diesels, if anything, are even better.

I can help with some of the terminology but would really prefer not to leave you half informed - and it gets a bit nerdy - check wikipedia for these terms as I'm sure they are covered. V-Tec certainly is - which, roughly speaking, is the Honda pioneered engine type which combines reliability, performance and economy.

Different manufacturers often use their own terminology for what are essentially very similar concepts. e.g. Mitsubishi's Mivec engines are roughly equivalent to the Honda V-tec engines. Variable valve timing is the technology - the engine's power output and economy is delivered according to the driving style - kind of.

Some of these letters merely refer to trim and equipment levels, but terms like TDi (turbo diesel injection) tend to be used accross the board.

Also, 16V - The more valves an engine has, the better - broadly speaking.

I'm stopping now before I say something foolish...I may already have done so...

 

[Marie]

Wow! Thank you so much. I feel better informed !

Now what's a "second generation common rail engine" (which presumably is 'CRE'?) and (a) is it a good/great/necessary thing (b) which engines have it and (c) how will I recognise them

.....then here endeth the lesson and Caveat and 'go in peace'.

 

[Marie]

Have taken your advice and found CRE on Wikipedia and now understand what it means. Many thanks.

 

[werner]

One last question. Is it a myth that German diesels are the most reliable? Recently someone assured me that these had been overtaken by French diesels (which I found it difficult to believe). Where do Korean and Japanese diesels come in this league of excellence..........or is it all bunkum?

My brother is a manager of a major car fleet in Germany

His experience is that French diesels are the most refined and most reliable apart from that the Honda Accord is an excellent reliable car

Perhaps your question should be what car is the most reliable with a diesel engine?

 

[Caveat]

Perhaps your question should be what car is the most reliable with a diesel engine?

If that is indeed your question then the following is from [broken link removed] and their top 100 list of the most reliable cars of the last 10 years - guess what's No.1? The Honda Accord...

They say:

"A classy package, well put together and feels more special than the average family car. Superb engines and value for money"

As I mentioned, their diesels are particularly well regarded.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[Uachtarain]

The Peugeot/Citroen PSA HDi Diesel has been in Ford for a couple of years. Other manufactures like BMW etc are looking at investing in this engine for their cars. The low cc 1.4 and 1.6 and high BHP output and excellent fuel economy of this engine is second to none. I am not a fan of European diesel engines and I believed that jap diesels were hard to beat but.........My experience over the last 2 years with selling different types of vehicles has giving me a total different view of what's out there today. Anyway the CO2 levels of the new BMW 520d Diesel is 136 making the new Irish road tax €150 the exact same as a FIAT Panda 1.1 petrol or Opel Corsa 1.2, 16v. Now THAT IS EFFICIENT. While the 2L Honda Accord diesel has a CO2 Level of 145 eh. back to the drawing board Honda .....

 

[Marie]

Uacht..........I noticed the Honda emission levels listed in "What Car?" were ratehr high and wondered about that given their brilliant t.v. advertisement.

Given these responses I'm puzzled about the (usually!) dismissive attitude to Peugeot who are described in a recent ""What Car?" as also-rans

 

[soy]

Uacht..........I noticed the Honda emission levels listed in "What Car?" were ratehr high and wondered about that given their brilliant t.v. advertisement.

Given these responses I'm puzzled about the (usually!) dismissive attitude to Peugeot who are described in a recent ""What Car?" as also-rans

The Honda engine is now over 3 years old and things have moved on quite a lot since then. It is still pretty good for emissions....however the Germans have reduced levels even further in the past year. For what its worth Honda are due to launch their Mk2 diesel in late 2008 and they claim to have made a new technological breakthrough http://environment.about.com/b/2006/09/25/honda-unveils-a-clean-super-efficient-diesel-engine.htm

The French have long made excellent diesel engines, however the rest of the car will still be rubbish.

 

[werner]

Uacht..........I noticed the Honda emission levels listed in "What Car?" were ratehr high and wondered about that given their brilliant t.v. advertisement.

Given these responses I'm puzzled about the (usually!) dismissive attitude to Peugeot who are described in a recent ""What Car?" as also-rans

I don't know if it is a British anti French thing but you never see the same level of hostility to French motors in European magazines as you do in the British ones. Perhaps the dealership in the UK for these motors are bad?

I have seen AA stats for the 407's and they are no worse than Mondeo's or Passat's etc for failures

 

[Marie]

Last question! How would you rate a Skoda Fabia 1.9 TDi with a Green Rating of C and mpg of 57.7? Would this be the same diesel as the 'Car of the Year' Volkswagen Golf? The car itself is unexciting but tbh most recent models (apart from the Honda Civic 'New Shape') have few features to distinguish one from another.

 

[Caveat]

How would you rate a Skoda Fabia 1.9 TDi with a Green Rating of C and mpg of 57.7?

Plenty of badge snobs around - but it is a good car.

Would this be the same diesel as the 'Car of the Year' Volkswagen Golf?

Not sure - but I'm fairly sure it has the same engine as the Audi A4

Snobbery aside, main criticisms tend to be that the interior is a bit cheap and that the cabin can be a bit noisy at speed - but for what is regarded as a budget car there isn't much to complain about really.

 

[Marie]

Yes - it is snobbery, isn't it? I literally snarled at the person who suggested I add Skoda to my original list which had been Honda, Toyota and Volkswagen.....in that order of preference and based on hearsay.

I've decided to go for a Fabia vRS which dealer tells me has a Volkswagen 1.9litre diesel engine and was 'hot hatch of the year' in 2003. Surprisingly it falls into tax-band C. It seems to have lots of cylinders which is grand.

Many thanks for the helpful advice.

 

[Marie]

I don't know if it is a British anti French thing but you never see the same level of hostility to French motors in European magazines as you do in the British ones. Perhaps the dealership in the UK for these motors are bad?

I have seen AA stats for the 407's and they are no worse than Mondeo's or Passat's etc for failures

Hi Werner - my dealer for my last car (Peugeot)was adequate but parts and things like oil, bulbs and accessories were extortionately expensive. Notwithstanding that Peugeot have huge sales in the UK and main dealerships in most towns.

There seem to be lots of pre-owned Renault Megane for sale, cheaply, and I've heard that owners of this car moan a lot about its shortcomings. It hadn't occurred to me that this is British anti-mainland sentiment but there is probably a dash of that involved

 

[Pique318]

The Fabia VRs is a brilliant car and if it had a VW badge would be the one most seen on the roads instead of the Golf.

It beat a Mini Cooper around Fifth Gear's track and I've been told by a friend that a 40-odd mile commute flies by in it due to its tractability.

If that's the size of car you are looking for then think no more.

Little bit bigger and it has to be the Leon, and bigger again then the Accord, A4 TDi or 320d.

Stay away from the IS220d, it's got a dog of a gearbox and will annoy the head off you.

Things like SE, CDX are all 'trim' levels, ie, the goodies you get and each manufacturer uses these their own way.

4-cyl engines are revvy (petrol models).
6-cyl are smoooth and relaxed.
V6 is 6-cyl in a V shape and are 'either' Revvy OR Smooth (depending on marque)

16V (valve) is good, 8V is bad (4-cyl example as most cars are. Basically, the more per cylinder the better up to 4 per cyl)

BHP = the ultimate power the car can produce (more = better)
Torque = how useable the power is (more at low RPM is better)

Diesels generally have less BHP than petrols but more torque overall and tons more at low revs, meaning that you can pull from low speeds in a high gear rather than changing down (think flooring it at 20mph in 3rd or 4th gear in a petrol....chuga chuga....not so with high torque).


Anyhoo, I'm rambling and it's late.

Best o' luck but you'd be better off importing a diesel into Ireland and registering it after 1st July.

Enjoy.
PK

 

[Pique318]

Oh Yeah...on the subject of Les Autos Francaise, steer clear.

As has been said, their engines are top notch but the rest of the car WILL give you sleepless nights !

Things break.....a lot !

The handbrake handle in friends Megane (helicopter style handle jobbie, crossways instead of normal) broke off in his hand one day without any warning (luckily not on a steep hill).

Replacing things costs a lot.

ABS sensor on wifes Citroen has failed consistently every 7000 miles or so. It involves a garage diagnostic and a Eur 120 part + labour.

Keycards for Renault Lagunas fail even with the utmost care taken and cost 300-odd euro to replace.

Nice to look at but no thanks.

Same goes for the Alfa GTV, Heart says yes, head says no !

 

[Caveat]

The Fabia VRs is a brilliant car and if it had a VW badge would be the one most seen on the roads instead of the Golf.

Agree. This Fabia has received lots of praise and is probably one of the most under appreciated cars of it's type. Certainly smaller than the ones you have been considering but if that's not a problem - go for it.