the most effective way to reduce alcohol consumption here is through taxation.

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shnaek

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I read today on rte.ie "The Health Research Board, which published figures on alcohol consumption in Ireland today, says the most effective way to reduce alcohol consumption here is through taxation.

The board says there was a 17% increase in alcohol consumption between 1995 and 2006 and that alcohol related deaths doubled to 1,775 in the ten years to 2004."

But how much did alcohol prices go up between 1995 and 2004? Obviously this huge increase in prices had no affect on alcohol consumption, so why would higher taxes? Homer Simpson logic it appears.
 
Re: Tax on drink

It seems to me that taxation can never go far enough. Why not just ban alcohol entirely and imprison all those caught consuming or selling the drug?
 
Re: Tax on drink

shnaek said:
I read today on rte.ie "The Health Research Board, which published figures on alcohol consumption in Ireland today, says the most effective way to reduce alcohol consumption here is through taxation.

The board says there was a 17% increase in alcohol consumption between 1995 and 2006 and that alcohol related deaths doubled to 1,775 in the ten years to 2004."

But how much did alcohol prices go up between 1995 and 2004? Obviously this huge increase in prices had no affect on alcohol consumption, so why would higher taxes? Homer Simpson logic it appears.
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I don't know exactly how much they increaced but that would just be inflation wouldn't it? It's taxes that should be increased where i think inflation increase is only relative to the wages we make.

I think increase taxes and increase fines when caught DUI.

room305 said:
It seems to me that taxation can never go far enough. Why not just ban alcohol entirely and imprison all those caught consuming or selling the drug?
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I agree. They are powerful companies here. Not like raising the prices of nappies. So the drink companies will have a say in taxes. On telly I see lots of anti-smoking adverts but never see anti-drink only anti-drink driving. Surely alcohol doesn't only kill people in cars?
But if you're being serious about a "ban" i think it would be naive because drink companies would be a big part of our economy (?) and we would just import it.
 
Re: Tax on drink

Sn@kebite said:
I agree. They are powerful companies here. Not like raising the prices of nappies. So the drink companies will have a say in taxes. On telly I see lots of anti-smoking adverts but never see anti-drink only anti-drink driving. Surely alcohol doesn't only kill people in cars?
But if you're being serious about a "ban" i think it would be naive because drink companies would be a big part of our economy (?) and we would just import it.
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I think he was being sarcastic when suggesting banning alcohol and jailing those caught drinking. At least I hope he was!!!
 
Re: Tax on drink

I think he was implying that taxation won't make a blind bit of difference, and that if they really want to save people from themselves they should ban it altogether. Which wouldn't work anyway, history has shown this.

Personally I think all drugs should be legal and taxed according to their cost to the economy in terms of health and public order, and that people should be made aware of the dangers and benefits with non-sensationalist, non-judgemental information, but ultimately should be able to make a choice in what is a personal matter. But that's another argument. :cool:
 
Re: Tax on drink

shanegl said:
I think he was implying that taxation won't make a blind bit of difference, and that if they really want to save people from themselves they should ban it altogether. Which wouldn't work anyway, history has shown this.
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I think taxation could have some effect but we've little idea whether it will be the desired one or not. That's the problem with the state trying to micromanage people's lives with taxation policy. There are so many variables involved that the outcome is always uncertain and so it is primarily about politicians wanting to be seen to do something.

Perhaps it would reduce alcohol consumption, or perhaps people will cut back on other things to maintain the same amount of consumption. Perhaps it will encourage the consumption of illegal drugs instead. It goes without saying that it will encourage a black market in illegally smuggled alcohol, resulting in a need to increase police resources or divert them from other areas. It could encourage people to make their own alcohol as is common in some scandanavian countries, and I could definitely see a further increase in shopping trips to France, with consequent effects on the exchequer.

The question nobody seems to be asking is what business does the state have telling people how much alcohol they should or should not consume?

shanegl said:
Personally I think all drugs should be legal and taxed according to their cost to the economy in terms of health and public order, and that people should be made aware of the dangers and benefits with non-sensationalist, non-judgemental information, but ultimately should be able to make a choice in what is a personal matter. But that's another argument. :cool:
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I think they should be legalised too but I'd question our ability to accurately implement such a complicated taxation policy. I'd be inclined to add a VAT rate of 21% and divert the enormous amount of police resources currently being expended on tackling supply to tackling any public order issues. Tackle the problem is what I say, not the perceived cause.

Funnily enough, the few acquaintances I have who enjoy the odd funny cigarette (the only effect I've ever had from such indulgence is nausea so I'm inclined to stick to beer) are all firmly against the legalising of same. They imagine supply will become constricted, the price will increase and the quality and potency of the product would decrease.
 
Re: Tax on drink

The excise duty on most alcohols has stayed constatnt over the past few years. It has not been increased in any recent Budget.

VAT at 21% has also been steady.

So any price rise is purely down to producers and/or pubs.

As a result, the excise duty / VAT element of the retail price has been falling.
 
Re: Tax on drink

Funnily enough, the few acquaintances I have who enjoy the odd funny cigarette (the only effect I've ever had from such indulgence is nausea so I'm inclined to stick to beer)
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If you're not a smoker, then it's probably the tobacco that's making you feel sick. Try a bong (without tobacco)
 
Re: Tax on drink

[broken link removed]

Just to inform, the excise duties are as follows

BEER = €19.87 per hectolitre per % of alcohol

This means 19.87 cent per litre per % of alcohol.

For a pint of stout beer, at 4.2% strength, this means a duty of 47.4c.

WINE = €273 per hectolitre

This means €2.73 per litre or €2.05 per bottle.

SPIRITS = €39.25 per litre of alcohol

This means €11 per 700ml bottle, or else 56c per shot.
 
Re: Tax on drink

Protocol said:
[broken link removed]

Just to inform, the excise duties are as follows

BEER = €19.87 per hectolitre per % of alcohol

This means 19.87 cent per litre per % of alcohol.

For a pint of stout beer, at 4.2% strength, this means a duty of 47.4c.
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Wow, so a bottle of Stella Artois which is 5.6% ABV means an excise of 36.72c. Incredible then that I've seen cases of 24 bottles retailing for €14.99 in Molloy's - an incredible 58.8% of the price the consumer is paying is tax to the government.

This should put to bed any thoughts that the taxation on alcohol is too low!
 
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room305 said:
I think they should be legalised too but I'd question our ability to accurately implement such a complicated taxation policy
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How would legalising drugs be good?
You'd have kids taking them "willy nilly" killing themselves everywhere. How would you monitor kids taking them in school toilets and night clubs etc..?

I think the reason we don't have people ODing left and centre is because the drugs are harder to aquire because their illegal and drug pushers wouldn't walk up to anybody and try to sell them the narcotic.
 
Re: Tax on drink

you should really read the argument for legalising drugs before you start posting uninformed twaddle like that.

Legalised drugs = standardised potency, taxed and licenced like all other drugs (alcohol, tobacco, Solpadeine...in itself more dangerous than dope) therefore ODing becomes less likely because the strength of the 'hit' is known. No E's laced with LSD, Grass with Heroin etc....

Just cos booze is legal doesn't mean that everyone in the country is falling down drunk 24/7, the same applies to drugs. People 'may' try something because it's legal but they will still have free will to choose whether or not it's for them. It's CHOICE, it's not to be put into their cornflakes to get them hooked !!

It theoretically 'could' work but I wouldn't think that Ireland would dare to be seen as 'soft' on drugs by our surrogate parents US & UK so it will NEVER happen while that dependency is there. (It's funny, our govt is addicted to the approval of the US & UK, in itself a drug of sorts).

Grow your own weed if you want I say, you never see stoners fighting outside nightclubs :)
 
Re: Tax on drink

room305 said:
Funnily enough, the few acquaintances I have who enjoy the odd funny cigarette (the only effect I've ever had from such indulgence is nausea so I'm inclined to stick to beer)
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leghorn said:
If you're not a smoker, then it's probably the tobacco that's making you feel sick. Try a bong (without tobacco)
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or just send it to me, I find it very difficult to procure. :D
 
Re: Tax on drink

Pique318 said:
you should really read the argument for legalising drugs before you start posting uninformed twaddle like that.
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Fair enough.

Pique said:
Just cos booze is legal doesn't mean that everyone in the country is falling down drunk 24/7, the same applies to drugs. People 'may' try something because it's legal but they will still have free will to choose whether or not it's for them. It's CHOICE, it's not to be put into their cornflakes to get them hooked !!
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This would (only) apply to adults imo.

The central problem with legalising drugs is that it will increase drug consumption under almost any reasonable guess as to what the legalisationregime would look like.

The effect of cutting prices (by legalising) may be negative:
1. it will dramaticallyh increase the number of users
2. possibly permanent effects
3. many aspects of society will be impacted by the drug-incapacitated persons,
  • needing welfare,
  • causing traffic deaths, and
  • ruining marriages
  • unhappy adolescents turning to drugs for security

Many things could go wrong and if they do we can't bann the narcotics again.
It's easy to be for legalisation if you don't know anyone who has died from narcotics.
 
Re: Tax on drink

Sn@kebite said:
This would (only) apply to adults imo.
Which is where legalising is always aimed at. no-one is advocating legalising it for all...there would have to be an age limit.
The central problem with legalising drugs is that it will increase drug consumption under almost any reasonable guess as to what the legalisation regime would look like.

The effect of cutting prices (by legalising) may be negative:
1. it will dramaticallyh increase the number of users
2. possibly permanent effects
3. many aspects of society will be impacted by the drug-incapacitated persons,
  • needing welfare,
  • causing traffic deaths, and
  • ruining marriages
  • unhappy adolescents turning to drugs for security
So substitute alcohol for 'drugs' and what's the diff ?
Many drug users operate perfectly fine in society, same as many alcohol drinkers, without need for welfare
drug-driving is illegal, as is drink-driving. It's more and more socially unacceptable and no harm.
Again, alcohol by itself doesn't destroy marriages, neither does drugs. It's the excessive comsumption of same that has a contributary effect.
Unhappy adolescents ALREADY turn to drugs for security, be they socially acceptable ones such as cigarettes and alcohol or solvents, spamspamspam, E's etc... Legalising drugs is not a carte blanche for teenagers to have a pick 'n' mix whenever they have a crappy day. Education and information is the solution, not a 'war' that is not, has not, and never will be, won.
Many things could go wrong and if they do we can't bann the narcotics again.

Whaddya mean, narcotics ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotic
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Re: Tax on drink

Pique318 said:
And again...alcohol ?
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I realise this is of topic (a little). But has alcohol not always been legal? - It's harder to say anything for alcohol because if it was illegal now and always was lots of people would want it to stay that way.

The banning of anything, whether it be booze or books, is rarely an effective measure at stopping people from partaking in it. If anything, it suggests to people that there's something special about the thing being banned and only serves to worsen the problem.

If you want to stop alcohol abuse, you're much better off educating people rather than taking the lazy man's route and simply banning it. (which is what you said i think)

Are the people for legalisation basically into reversed-phsychology? And hoping people get bored with drugs?
 
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