Options available with debt collectors on debts that are not debts?

[silvamuppet]

Hi
We have an issue with a debt collector looking to collect on an unpaid bill.
The bill in question is for something that we feel we don't owe.

Quick background is that in march 06 we had work done on the house and the builders cut through the phone line in error. Given that we had to move out for a while anyway we rang phone line supplier (Smart) to get regular phone disconnected and braodband supplier (Esat) for same so we wouldn't be charged for something we weren't using over the next few months.

Long story short, broadband crowd said fine and everything honky dorey. Phone supplier also said fine but a number of months later we received a bill for the months we weren't in the house , rang up and said disconnect like we requested and that we expected there would be no bill to pay, they grumbled and mention of passing it off to a supervisor. Last we heard.

Looks like they then sold the debt to a debt collecter. Collector sent us a letter looking for the cash. We rang explained situation. They said fine they'd take care of it. We hear nothing for 6 months then get a letter threatening action. We ring them, no answer repeatedly, leave a message. Nobody gets back to us. After a more heavily worded letter we try agin to get in touch and after a few calls get through and they don't care , just want the money.

I am wondering in general how much recourse we have? The sum in question isn't huge (about 120 euro), but it's the principle of the thing and the attitude of both Smart and the Debt collector. It really irritates me to be giving these gangsters anything. Wondering if anyone else has had something like this and know how much recourse we have (latest heavily worded letter says the usual, send the heavies around, name onto credit rating list, legal action etc etc).

Note: we're not the kind of people who have ever defaulted on a payment on anything so we're not trying to dodge a bill, just don't feel it is ok that a company can keep charging us for something we requested out of.

 

[jhegarty]

I am wondering in general how much recourse we have? The sum in question isn't huge (about 120 euro), but it's the principle of the thing and the attitude of both Smart and the Debt collector. It really irritates me to be giving these gangsters anything. Wondering if anyone else has had something like this and know how much recourse we have (latest heavily worded letter says the usual, send the heavies around, name onto credit rating list, legal action etc etc).

I had a problem like that with ntl....kept trying to charge a bill for an old address , becuase the disconnection was on "another system".... in the end I just started sending everything back as "not know at this address" and it went away in the end....

 

[silvamuppet]

, tempting but i'd rather knock this one on the head.

Plus don't want the wife ending up on the dodgy credit list (phone bill was in her name).....am guessing we run the risk of that with that approach.

Whats worst is we don't have a paper trail. Don't know how much it would stand up but if we'd sent letters instead of dealing with by phone we might have more comeback.

Switching to smart was probably the least smart thing we ever did.

 

[Vanilla]

I would suggest that you now write to the debt collectors by registered post setting out that you asked for a disconnection and that smart agreed to this, that when they first sent a bill you rang again and were told it woudl be fine etc. I would also suggest that you tell the debt collectors that if they pursue the matter you will defend it in court and that you will seek reimbursement of your legal costs if that arises. See how that goes down. If they still serve legal proceedings, make sure you enter an appearance ( otherwise they can obtain judgement against you without going into court) and then you can either appear yourselves or have a solicitor do it for you. Chances are if the debt collection company see you are serious it will not get that far. But if it does the judge will give you a fair hearing in court.

 

[MrKeane]

I had 2 run ins with debt collectors in similar type situations to yourself. I kept ignoring them and eventually they just went away, but I *think* Vanilla is a solicitor so I would do what he says and send a registered letter.

 

[csirl]

Debt collectors in Ireland dont have the same powers that debt collectors and baillifs in other countries have e.g. UK. They cannot turn up and seize property or refuse to leave until they are paid etc. Property and money in Ireland can only be seized on foot of a court order and by the County Sherriff. Essentially these debt collectors have no power other than to remind you to pay the bill or collect payments made voluntarily on behave of the company employing them.

I usually take the approach that mistakes can happen and if people are civil and reasonable about it, then I'm happy to clear up any misunderstandings. However, if people, whos fault the mistake is in the first place, start acting up and causing me problems, if after me pointing out their mistake to them a number of times, still act up, then I prefer what the sledgehammer and nut approach as a way of teaching them to get their act together.

Firstly, as they cannot enter your premises without your permission, if they call again, I would simply tell them that they are barred from your property and that you have no relationship with their company and you have not received anything in writing from Smart saying that their company is acting on their behalf (I mean directly in post from Smart, not some letter possessed by the debt collector themselves). Tell them that if Smart want to talk to you, they should call you directly, not via a third party. If they call a second time, then I'm afraid that the Gardai will have to be called and both tresspass and harrasment charges are filed against the INDIVIDUALS who turn up (not the debt collection company - always better to go after individual employees as gets better results due to individual not wanting permanent record).

I would then get your solicitor to write a letter to Smart outlining what has happened and what was previously agreed (i.e. that you wouldnt be charged). Also include in letter than you have been harrassed without reason by third parties and that you have an issue with your personal details been passed onto third parties, particularly since this information is incorrect and portrays you in an unfavourable light (their legal people will know where this is going). Ask them for a written apology outlining that they were incorrect to state that you owed money and that they regret passing on information to third parties etc.

 

[silvamuppet]

Thanks for the replies guys.

There is a lot of stuff there that I will follow up on.
Appreciate the input.

Vanilla, I expect I'll send that letter in shortly and with csirl's input in mind!

csirl , didn't realise they had so little power which is a relief as my bigger worry was the heavies turning up on our doorstep and getting thick with my wife (who would have 3 young children with her) all because I'm too stubborn to let this go.

If the worst comes to the worst I'll end up paying the €120. But not until I've tried a few of those options and seen what the result is.

Thanks