Is Pat Rabbitte safe as Labour leader?

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Purple

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When Pat Rabbitte took over from Ruairi Quinn as leader of the Labour party they looked like they were set to become the main opposition party in Ireland. Ruairi had succeeded in building on the platform that Dick Spring had established when he brought Labour into the 20th century, culminating in the “Spring tide” in 1992.
Under Quinn the gap between Fine Gael and Labour was reduced to 10 seats. The gap is now 30. This may well be due to Fine Gael’s resurgence, indeed this is probably the case, but politics can be very unforgiving and failure, even when it is not your fault, rarely goes unpunished.
 
Apparently his 'menopausal Paris Hilton' jibe at McDowell offended more feminists than helped McDowell haters
 
Do you reckon also that his (most recent) distancing from FF is a result of him being openly criticized by party members? Broughan, on live TV, was critical of Labour's association with the 'alliance for change'. I think there were others too.

It looks to me that to avoid an insurrection, Rabbitte had to look firm as a leader - willingness to do business with FF might have upset the more hard line elements in Labour further.
 
I think he'll do nothing until the Dail reconvenes and they aren't able to elect a Taoiseach.

Then all bets are off and he'll "reluctantly" take ministerial office. If he has any cop he'll demand that Bertie resigns as leader before he does this as what's coming out at the Mahon Tribunal is going to keep going on and on. Eventually whoever is in power with FF will have to cut them loose if they want to retain any credibility.

When is the job in the Park up for filling. Kill two birds with one stone if Bertie was to plums for that. (1. he could resign with dignity - in the national interest and 2 also he'd be gone by 60 as he promised) . The two parties would naturally support hs candidacy for the job..


Murt
 
Murt10 said:
I think he'll do nothing until the Dail reconvenes and they aren't able to elect a Taoiseach.

Then all bets are off and he'll "reluctantly" take ministerial office. If he has any cop he'll demand that Bertie resigns as leader before he does this as what's coming out at the Mahon Tribunal is going to keep going on and on. Eventually whoever is in power with FF will have to cut them loose if they want to retain any credibility.

When is the job in the Park up for filling. Kill two birds with one stone if Bertie was to plums for that. (1. he could resign with dignity - in the national interest and 2 also he'd be gone by 60 as he promised) . The two parties would naturally support hs candidacy for the job..


Murt
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I'd say you'd get good odds for any of that happening...can't see any of it myself.
 
What a sh!t gig that'd be...he can't sing worth a damn !!

Tickets €250....construction industry free :)
 
Just looked them up on wikipedia - tons of info there - trip down memory lane.
I think we've strayed from the OPs' thread tho....
 
Back to the original question - There are certainly rumblings among the grass roots about Rabitte's leadership. Ruairi had the decency to fall on his sword when his strategy didn't work in 2002, but Pat seems to be trying to brazen it out. His 5-year term as leader expires in November, so he will have to decide whether to put himself forward again or not (if he doesn't get the boot in the meantime).

His saving grace is probably the lack of alternative leaders. Howlin or Gilmore would certainly be competent, but I can't see either of them bringing anything hugely different to the party. Joan Burton is a smart lady, but is just not very appealing to those outside the fold.
 
I have a feeling that Labours lack of success in the election may not so much be down to the Mullingar Accord or Pat Rabbittes refusal to answer the question regarding getting in to bed with Bertie but rather his decision to take Labour to the right, a space already occupied by Fine Fail, Fine Gael and the PDs.

Instead of advocating leftish policies like income redistribution and better public services he instead focussed on policies that marked Labour out as a party of the right e.g.

income tax cuts
cuts in stamp duty for those purchasing multiple properties
the Begin to Buy scheme whereby he promised to pay over 1,500,000,
000 to developers in order to keep house prices rising.
tougher policing


IMO there is a big space for a leftish alternative to voters and Labour would have done better if they instead targeted them. You might argue that he did as well but making promises of tax cuts and more spending doesn't really fool a lot of people.
 
RainyDay said:
Back to the original question - There are certainly rumblings among the grass roots about Rabitte's leadership. Ruairi had the decency to fall on his sword when his strategy didn't work in 2002, but Pat seems to be trying to brazen it out. His 5-year term as leader expires in November, so he will have to decide whether to put himself forward again or not (if he doesn't get the boot in the meantime).

His saving grace is probably the lack of alternative leaders. Howlin or Gilmore would certainly be competent, but I can't see either of them bringing anything hugely different to the party. Joan Burton is a smart lady, but is just not very appealing to those outside the fold.
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Good post RainyDay.
I agree that his strategy didn't work out but I think it had more to do with Enda Kenny than Pat Rabbitte. I thought Pats start to the campaign was excellent but he didn't finish well. The tactic of not getting into the whole payments to Bertie issue helped Enda Kenny, because he's useless at that sort of political debate, but it did Pat no favours as that's exactly the sort of thing that he excels at.
I would think that Howlin would be well supported in the old Labour camp but you would know more about that than I. Gilmore, while being well polished and mentally agile, is not as good at Pat Rabbitte and would project the same image to the electorate. Despite her ability I think that Joan Burtons looks and voice would colour most peoples impression, unfair though that is.

Are there any young guns on the up within the Labour party? I don't see any, and many of the old hands are out of the running. Michael D, former minister for Galway, is too old and is too much of a character to be party leader. Joe Costello is also too old (or has been around too long anyway). He is also too much of a socialist.
Liz McManus, Ruairi Quinn, Emmet Stag; all part of the old guard and despite their ability would have nothing much new to offer. So all things considered I think Pat is safe for the moment.
 
madisona said:
the Begin to Buy scheme whereby he promised to pay over 1,500,000,000 to developers in order to keep house prices rising.
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Surely this policy of direct government intervention to support a falling market is more of a shake to the left than the right?
 
madisona said:
cuts in stamp duty for those purchasing multiple properties
the Begin to Buy scheme whereby he promised to pay over 1,500,000,
000 to developers in order to keep house prices rising.
tougher policing
Click to expand...
For the record, the truth of Labour's stamp duty policies can be [broken link removed]. The proposal was to eliminate stamp duty for FTBs up to €450k and reduce stamp duty for ALL other purchases, with the highest percentage reductions aimed at purchasers around the 400k mark.

There was no proposal for 'tougher policing'. There was a proposal to provide 2,000 more Gardai, include 1,500 new positions for community Gardai.

Your spin on the Begin To Buy scheme is extremely misleading.

Your suggestion for a 'leftish alternative' doesn't hold much water, given Joe Higgins lost seat and the failure of SF to get anywhere. There is no evidence that there is any appetite for leftish policies amongst Irish voters.
Purple said:
Are there any young guns on the up within the Labour party?
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There are some good up-and-coming people out there, like Culhane in Dublin South, Hannigan in Meath, Tuffy in Dublin West, but none of them have credible experience to think about stepping into the leader's shoes.
 
RainyDay said:
There are some good up-and-coming people out there, like Culhane in Dublin South, Hannigan in Meath, Tuffy in Dublin West, but none of them have credible experience to think about stepping into the leader's shoes.
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Most of the TDs will be over 60 at the next election. Succesion in these type of seats is Labours problem. Unless 10 succesor candidates appear from nowhere many of these seats will be lost
 
mmclo said:
Most of the TDs will be over 60 at the next election. Succesion in these type of seats is Labours problem. Unless 10 succesor candidates appear from nowhere many of these seats will be lost
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Agreed. This generation were largely the TD's that came in a bright, young(ish) things in the 1992 Spring tide. The absence of regular new intake of TDs since then may hit us hard in the future.
 
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