The "Because I'm Worth It" culture - Source of Trouble

[Betsy Og]

I always have to wonder when I hear advisers and bankers relate stories of how people on big salaries find themselves in financial difficulties because they are living beyond their means.

Its hard to have sympathy & I think much of the underlying cause is the "Beacause I'm Worth It" culture where people convince themselves that they "deserve" a BMW or a bigger house etc.

Nobody "deserves" any of those things - they pay for them. If you cant pay then dont go there.

"Cutting one's cloth to measure" doesnt seem in vogue anymore - thriftiness is ridiculed, borrow to keep up with the Jones.

This logically leads on to the knob element who enjoy ostentatious conspicuous consumption, talking down to people about their knowledge of wine & art etc. Ditto property bores

Now I'm not poor (nor rich) but I'm keeping it to myself. Maybe I'll buy a Beemer but only when I've no debt & its spare change - and even at that I'd be wary of the category I'd be putting myself in.

This related selfishness that has crept in is cringeworthy - saw a recent case of someone who was going to avoid going somewhere because the presence of a baby would ruin their experience - I guess that happens when the world revolves around you.......

Anyone in agreement re the above. (as I finish typing I'm thinking this will probably (rightly!) get redirected to LOS !!)

 

[Jock04]

I'd agree with a lot of what you say.
Everyone wants to look like a millionaire. Everyone wants a Beemer/property portfolio/ totally over-the-top Communion party, even though many, in strictly financial terms, probably shouldn't be mortgaged to the amount they are on the family home.
It's a cold wind that blows when you live the fur coat & no knickers lifestyle!

Not sure about your baby-avoidance tale though. Many people without kids (and there are some!) look for holidays/hotels/functions/whatever that are not going to degenerate into endless hours of screeching/ buggy wheel scuffs to the ankles/ etc etc.
Doesn't make them bad people!

 

[Betsy Og]

I'd agree with a lot of what you say.
Not sure about your baby-avoidance tale though. Many people without kids (and there are some!) look for holidays/hotels/functions/whatever that are not going to degenerate into endless hours of screeching/ buggy wheel scuffs to the ankles/ etc etc.
Doesn't make them bad people!

Well this was only 1 child and it was a relation of theirs. Not saying everyone should have kids or love kids generally but the delivery of it was basically "blaming" the child for its existence and "ruining" their plans. Sickened my _____ anyway.

 

[Jock04]

Understood!
The story you relate is not nice indeed, much like that of another couple I know who asked their best man & wife not to take their new baby to the wedding "cos it would detract attention from the happy couple" Needless to say, they were soon looking for a new best man!
People are entirely self-obsessed, and it reveals itself everywhere.

 

[Purple]

If people want to sail close to the wind then good luck to them but they shouldn't moan about it. That's what gets to me.
When you hear "have you any idea what a new set of types costs for that f***ing Beemer costs!" then the answer should be "buy a car you can afford".
Note that I have nothing against BMW drivers (I don't drive one) and disagree with the stereotype that some people project onto said drivers. I'm not comfortable tarring any group of people with the same brush.

I agree with your general point that many people have become more selfish but I don’t see any correlation between that selfishness and those who live beyond their means (whatever those means may be). I also see it in those who budget for everything and resent and look down on those who don’t.

 

[Betsy Og]

My point is that its the selfishness, the "deserving" things, "because I'm worth it", & I should have what "everyone" else has, that gets people into those situations of living beyond their means. So I think theres a definite correlation amongst high earners in financial trouble.

Its not that people in debt shouldnt be helped but you'd imagine that telling high earners in trouble to cop themselves on and cut out the wasteage would be the best advice you could give them.

 

[Purple]

My point is that its the selfishness, the "deserving" things, "because I'm worth it", & I should have what "everyone" else has, that gets people into those situations of living beyond their means. So I think theres a definite correlation amongst high earners in financial trouble.

I agree but I also think that there are people who are doing very well but live on a budget and think they have it tough. They also think they deserve it all and are bitter that they can’t afford it (within their budget).
I know a lady who resents her brother and sister-in-law because they have a bigger house. The fact that they work harder and are more exposed to debt does not console her at all. As far as she is concerned it is unjust. The same lady lives in Blackrock in Dublin and goes on two holidays a year. Her husband (my mate, the reason I know her) is bemused by her attitude.

Its not that people in debt shouldnt be helped but you'd imagine that telling high earners in trouble to cop themselves on and cut out the wasteage would be the best advice you could give them.

If a high earner is in debt then the solution might well be for them to move into a smaller (or less large) house. They don’t need or deserve help in that scenario. No matter what happens they won’t end up destitute.

 

[ney001]

Maybe these people are just living for today and follow the culture of 'you can't take it with you'. Why spend your life driving something run of the mill that you're not happy with, it doesn't make you selfish, it makes you human and if it's within your means to get a nice car then get one. I think that's a better attitude to have then making a martyr of yourself by scrimping and saving yet being bitter towards the people who do drive nice cars and took out big loans to do so - let them at it I say!. Of course they're smug but they're no more smug then the people who scrimp and save and sit in judgment on them!.

Me, I have no money and drive a crappy jeep, even if I had the money to get a nice car wouldn't be much point with two big hairy dogs in it every day - still I do admire those that go out and buy their dream machines, sure you're only young once!.

PS: Comment re kids - maybe they just don't like kids - it happens!!

 

[z107]

Why spend your life driving something run of the mill that you're not happy with, it doesn't make you selfish, it makes you human and if it's within your means to get a nice car then get one.

Each to their own I suppose.

I would far rather the 'crappy jeep', and spend the car money taking a couple of years off - especially because you're only young once. I always thought it strange that so many people buy new cars so they can mainly use them in their commute to work (to pay for them). In Dublin, even expensive cars don't really stand out any more, so why bother? The place is full of mercs and chelsea tractors.

Imagine what else they could spend this money on (that they've paid income tax) For €30-€40k;
- They could easily take a year or maybe two off work
- Pay a chunk of the mortgage and retire that bit early
- buy a mini-submarine!

Of course some people have plenty money, and probably don't have to work to pay for their car. So this is just for the commuters.

 

[ACA]

What irritates me the most is the 'high-rollers' in their Mercs or Beamers with loose children in the back - happy to pay €40-50k for a car but wouldn't dream of spending €100 to protect their child in the event of an accident.

 

[battyee]

What I say is "Vive le difference" ! Everyone has different priorities & aspirations. Some are motivated by greed, others want to show off, others feel the need to have it all & worry about paying later. Then on the other side there are people who only want to live at ease with themselves, have reserves for a rainy day or even choose to hide their wealth & assets. I can understand & have little problem with how people spend their money be they rich or poor.
What I do have a real problem & growing concerns about are those who can never settle for what is legally theirs & choose the route of crime, drug dealing, corruption & tax evasion. This class is by no means confined to the "under priviliged".

 

[ney001]

What irritates me the most is the 'high-rollers' in their Mercs or Beamers with loose children in the back - happy to pay €40-50k for a car but wouldn't dream of spending €100 to protect their child in the event of an accident.

couldn't agree more

 

[Purple]

What irritates me the most is the 'high-rollers' in their Mercs or Beamers with loose children in the back - happy to pay €40-50k for a car but wouldn't dream of spending €100 to protect their child in the event of an accident.

They are no more at fault than those with cheaper cars who do not secure their children in the back. What has their income or make of car got to do with it? You can buy a good second hand Beamer for €10k; hardly a high rollers car. I think that your comment says more about you and your biases than it says about those you seek to judge.

Some are motivated by greed, others want to show off, others feel the need to have it all & worry about paying later.

Did it occur to you that some people buy nice cars because they enjoy driving them and are not motivated by greed and don't care what other people think about them? Not everyone is so shallow that they judge others by what car they drive (or don't drive).
Inverted snobbery, you just gotta love it!

 

[Betsy Og]

Why spend your life driving something run of the mill that you're not happy with, it doesn't make you selfish, it makes you human and if it's within your means to get a nice car then get one.

Maybe my initial post was a bit moralising, I think, in your opposition, you've brought out my point where you say "if its within your means then get one".

Theres no sin in having a nice car but I just think its a pity if people feel driven (if you'll pardon the pun!!) to overstretching themselves because of growing materialism in Irish society.

If I just didnt like people in nice cars it would make me small minded/begrudging etc. As I said I might find myself driving such a beast of a vehicle one day!!

 

[Purple]

Theres no sin in having a nice car but I just think its a pity if people feel driven (if you'll pardon the pun!!) to overstretching themselves because of growing materialism in Irish society.

On that point I agree 100%