ESB and Nightsaver

[daisy22]

I recently bought a duplex apt. The ESB had been turned off and so I reconnected it.
I am now wanting to change my tarrif to nightsaver. When I called ESB they told me an electrician would have to check the place and send a cert. into them for nightsaver to be started.
I am clueless as to the whole setup that there needs to be for nightsaver but when looking at my fuse box I notice there are 'day' and 'night' switches/dials inside - is this nightsaver already installed and in this case can I just get the ESB to change the tarriff automatically?

 

[fizzy]

Hi Daisy,

I am in much the same position as you having just bought an apartment with electric heating and am totally clueless too!

What does your ESB meter look like? Mine has a day and a night reading on it (2 readings), and some of the other apartments have 2 separate meters (one for day, one for night)...

The ESB were able to confirm that my apartment is definitely on the nightsaver tariff (I just transferred the account from the previous owner, elec was still on). They asked about the meter rather than the fuse box, so have a look at yours - are there separate readings on it?

My fuse box has 2 dials like yours does, but I don't understand the significance of that...

 

[Leo]

My fuse box has 2 dials like yours does, but I don't understand the significance of that...

One measures the amount of electricity used at the day rate, the other measures that used on the lower night saver rate.

 

[qwerty?]

When I called ESB they told me an electrician would have to check the place and send a cert. into them for nightsaver to be started.?

Have a look on top of your Fuse box, the cert may already be there. Otherwise check with the previous owner, they might have it.

 

[fizzy]

One measures the amount of electricity used at the day rate, the other measures that used on the lower night saver rate.

thanks for explaining leo - but just so i have this right, will *any* appliance used at night automatically be charged at the cheaper rate? one electrician i got a quote from gave me the impression that only heaters leading back to the "night board" (for want of a better word) can be used on the cheap rate, which got me a bit worried!

 

[qwerty?]

thanks for explaining leo - but just so i have this right, will *any* appliance used at night automatically be charged at the cheaper rate? one electrician i got a quote from gave me the impression that only heaters leading back to the "night board" (for want of a better word) can be used on the cheap rate, which got me a bit worried!

Most houses with electric heaters only use the Nightsaver storage heater option, because the standing charge is very little. With proper NS where all appliances are using it, the standing charge is alot higher.

 

[ClubMan]

Most houses with electric heaters only use the Nightsaver storage heater option, because the standing charge is very little. With proper NS where all appliances are using it, the standing charge is alot higher.

Are you sure that you mean standing charge? I'd need to check my bill but as far as I recall the standing charges for Nightsaver are not negligible. The main things about NS is that the night unit rate is lower than the day unit rate.

 

[ClubMan]

will *any* appliance used at night automatically be charged at the cheaper rate?

Yes. But bear in mind that it's not a good idea from a safety point of view to put heavy loads on (e.g. washing machines, dishwashers, driers etc.) when retiring to bed for the night or going out. This can be a significant fire risk.

 

[fizzy]

Yes. But bear in mind that it's not a good idea from a safety point of view to put heavy loads on (e.g. washing machines, dishwashers, driers etc.) when retiring to bed for the night or going out. This can be a significant fire risk.

Thanks for the clarification and sorry for hijacking Daisy's post - I was trying to console her that a lot of us are baffled by this electric heating stuff. Hopefully Daisy has made progress with her case.

But just to warn you Daisy, different experts tell you different stories about this electric heating - I have had 3 electrician opinions (one from within my apartment's management company) on my electric heating - 2 told me that only my storage heater would be on the cheap rate at night and that if i wanted convector heaters to use the cheap rate that would cause major rewiring and hassle. The other electrician thought that anything I run at night should be on the cheap rate.

The ESB have confirmed twice that my apartment has a dual tariff meter (with a day and night reading) which means that everything running at night is on cheap. I hope I can trust them! I have been told that you can tell for sure which type (cheap storage heaters at night / or cheap everything at night) you have from looking at your meter (if you know what you are looking at).

I actually don't envisage doing washing up at night. It's just that I only have convector heaters in my bedrooms, and an electrician said it is now illegal to have storage heaters in bedrooms. So, I am going to get convectors with timers so that I can have them come on before I wake up so the room will not be icy. Therefore, it could make a big difference in the long run if only my storage heater (and not my convector ones) could avail of the cheap rate.

In terms of the ESB standing charge, it is more on the full nightsaver tariff (114.12 per year ex vat on urban nightsaver (tariff 2)) than normal (65.04 per year ex vat on domestic urban (tariff 1))
see [broken link removed]

But as a outsider/newbie I think the nightsaver definitely makes more sense for the typical electric heated dwelling??

 

[ClubMan]

The ESB have confirmed twice that my apartment has a dual tariff meter (with a day and night reading) which means that everything running at night is on cheap. I hope I can trust them!

No need to trust them. You should have a key for your meter box (if not you can get one in any hardware shop and if you don't know where your meter box is find out!) so you can open it and check that there are two meters - one marked night and one marked day.

I have been told that you can tell for sure which type (cheap storage heaters at night / or cheap everything at night) you have from looking at your meter (if you know what you are looking at).

Yes - you can work this out by logging the meter readings in the evening and morning for a few days and see how the numbers stack up.

Therefore, it could make a big difference in the long run if only my storage heater (and not my convector ones) could avail of the cheap rate.

If you have a night rate meter and your convection heaters come on before the day rate starts (8AM Winter, 9AM Summer - or maybe vice versa) then they should use the night rate.

But as a outsider/newbie I think the nightsaver definitely makes more sense for the typical electric heated dwelling??

If you are using storage heaters and/or night rate immersion water heating then I would say so.

 

[fizzy]

you are more useful than all the electricians put together clubman! thanks so much.

No need to trust them. You should have a key for your meter box (if not you can get one in any hardware shop and if you don't know where your meter box is find out!) so you can open it and check that there are two meters - one marked night and one marked day.

i can see the meters for all the apartments. they are just in a press. i just have one meter, but it has a reading labelled day and a reading labelled night. most of the other apartments have 2 separate meters.

Yes - you can work this out by logging the meter readings in the evening and morning for a few days and see how the numbers stack up.

indeed, but i have not moved in yet and there are no appliances in it and the existing heaters do not work. but i have bought an oil filled heater today so i guess i could camp out there one night now to know for sure!

again, i actually am not that bothered about the money (in the short run). but since some electricians had implied that there would be a different amount of work involved in putting new heaters in depending on whether i wanted them to avail of the cheap rate or not, i thought it was crucial to work out exactly what setup i had before i get any work done.

i tell you, i think i was right to have GFCH right up at the top of my wishlist! still, an electric heated apartment is way better than no apartment

 

[Copper]

I only have convector heaters in my bedrooms, and an electrician said it is now illegal to have storage heaters in bedrooms.

It is not illegal, or against the wiring rules, but it is poor design to have storage heaters in a bedroom because they are cold at night and give off heat during the day, so do not suit the typical occupancy pattern of a bedroom, (unless you are lucky enough to be in bed all day long )

 

[qwerty?]

Are you sure that you mean standing charge? I'd need to check my bill but as far as I recall the standing charges for Nightsaver are not negligible. The main things about NS is that the night unit rate is lower than the day unit rate.

I talking about the Nightsaver STORAGE heating option. It's only a few euro on top of your Standard Standing Charge, but Nightsaver is almost twice the standing charge of standard electricity.

 

[fizzy]

It is not illegal, or against the wiring rules, but it is poor design to have storage heaters in a bedroom because they are cold at night and give off heat during the day, so do not suit the typical occupancy pattern of a bedroom, (unless you are lucky enough to be in bed all day long )

Well, I sometimes work from home so there may be the possibility of working from bed. Plus, while I have 2 bedrooms now, I should have mentioned that I will have 1 bedroom and a computer room when I'm done...

So, I thought the best option might be to have combined storage and convector heaters in both bedrooms to cover all bases? I want to keep the place warm (I feel the cold too!) without bankrupting myself. I imagine convector & oil filled heaters are costly to run?

So I have one electrician saying it is against regs to put storage heaters in bedrooms, and another saying that he could do it but it would be an awful lot of hassle changing from having a convector heater to a storage heater - loads of rewiring is needed??

 

[Copper]

If you already have convector heaters but you want combined storage/vector heaters, you will have to run a cable from each heater position back to the fuseboard, which could be a lot of hassle depending on your apartment, ie it could mean having to knock holes in walls.

If you want to change the convector heaters to just storage heaters then you can use the existing cable so it would be no hassle.

 

[fizzy]

thanks so much for explaining copper - i think i finally get it!

the odd thing is that i'm actually switching from a storage only heater in the main room to a storage/convector and the electrician did not bat an eyelid at that... but doing a convector to storage/convector in the bedrooms was deemed to cause hassle. maybe the cabling in my main room is different?

perhaps i will switch from a convector to a storage in the computer room though, so thanks a mill for the heads up!