people coming into this country and getting rent paid to the tune of €1300 p.m.

I think there have been a few cases of welfare fraud, many involving asylum or former asylum seekers, that have created the impression that they are all at it.

Unfortunately, in my own experience there are far too many bigots willing enough to spew around rumours of more doing it. As a result its hard to say at what level fraud by foreign people is actually happening at.

It would certainly not appear to be common amongst new EU immigrants, since only a very tiny proportion of them get any social welfare at all. On the contrary, a lot of immigrants are the first to be ripped off as they don't know what the going rate is.

I agree with whoever said that the real beneficiary is the speculator or landlord: many landlords who take RA tenants hike the rent up to get the maximum amount available, and tenants go along with this.

30-50% of all rentals are to RA tenants - this is also hiking up rents overall, and if you actually look at going rents in each area, they tend in the cases of certain types of properties (manybe except in Dublin) to mirror the RA rents allowable. The only year in which rents fell in Ireland was the one year in which the health boards put restrictions on the rent allowance gravy train (2002) - and removing those restrictions a year later resulted in rents going up again.

This of course, isn't RA tenants fault, since they don't set the rents.

Its the government who set these limits and set the rules.
Why?
Because it makes more profits for landlords and property speculators.
And this pushes up the value of housing.
Which makes bigger profits for FF's friends in the building industry.

If social housing were made available to even 25% of the RA tenant population tomorrow the demand for private rented properties would collapse almost immediately - and probably end up toppling the property market.

Having lived in many properties with a lot of RA tenants, I found a lot of them were borderline if not totally substandard, but then again some of the tenants were total scum. I live in a house bought by my best friend which was formerly rented to RA tenants, and you wouldn't beieve the damage they did. So its hard really to argue a case either way.

What I do think is unfair is that its almost impossible to get social housing, yet the only requirement to get RA is to be on social welfare and either over a certain age or already living in rented accomodation. I think its particularly pernicious that a time waster of a teenager who doesn't want to work can get RA to live in a flat in town so they can socialise whereas the genuine teenager who wants to work cannot afford to move out due to high rents and low wages. And I have seen too many of the above. The same criteria applied to social housing should be applied to RA - it sems many get it just because they want it!!
 
iff12 said:
Having lived in many properties with a lot of RA tenants, I found a lot of them were borderline if not totally substandard, but then again some of the tenants were total scum. I live in a house bought by my best friend which was formerly rented to RA tenants, and you wouldn't beieve the damage they did. So its hard really to argue a case either way.

I thought it was a long time since landlords were allowed to get away with sub standard properties. Given what happened in your friend's house, do you not think that landlords should be well compensated for taking a risk with RA tenants? If they don't who will?? Social housing is out the window.

What I do think is unfair is that its almost impossible to get social housing, yet the only requirement to get RA is to be on social welfare and either over a certain age or already living in rented accomodation. I think its particularly pernicious that a time waster of a teenager who doesn't want to work can get RA to live in a flat in town so they can socialise whereas the genuine teenager who wants to work cannot afford to move out due to high rents and low wages. And I have seen too many of the above. The same criteria applied to social housing should be applied to RA - it sems many get it just because they want it!!

Another aspect of this is that a child, working and living at home usually hands up some kind of rent/housekeeping. If they become unemployed they are not entitled to rent allowance, so the parents have to make up the shortfall in the family income. However, if the child leaves home and goes on unemployment benefit, they are entitled to the RA. Seems crazy to me. Surely there should be something other than 'all or nothing' for those who live with parents while unemployed?
 
just on topic, what if someone has come in from the new European states and they have worked in Ireland for a number of years, paying their taxes, then they become unemployed? At present they are probably not entitled to rent allowance, but this will change in the next few years.
 
Another aspect of this is that a child, working and living at home usually hands up some kind of rent/housekeeping. If they become unemployed they are not entitled to rent allowance, so the parents have to make up the shortfall in the family income. However, if the child leaves home and goes on unemployment benefit, they are entitled to the RA. Seems crazy to me. Surely there should be something other than 'all or nothing' for those who live with parents while unemployed?

Charlie McCreevy made a change a few years back, so that those unemployed living at home (in the early 90s there were quite a few) could only move out and apply for rent allowance if they could get a letter from a doctor alleging abuse against their parents.

Hardly the most family friendly way of sparing a few quid!
 
Slightly off topic, but I don't imagine too many immigrants are coming in here and doing too well as according to the Irish Times business section today:
"the level of social transfers in the Republic, as a percentage of GDP, ranked 27th of the 30 countries surveyed." "The percentage for the republic was 15.8% of GDP, while that for Sweden, where transfers were highest, was 31.3%"
Maybe we don't give any benefits to our indigenous peoples??
 
The question is why is the state willing to pay more to keep famililes apart.

Presumably part of the issue is the constitutional definition of family which the state is obliged to defend/support? Until that is widened certain anomalies will persist.
In fact anomalies such as the one outlined by daltonr exist despite, rather than because of, constitutional protection for families; Indeed, the state continues to exercise anti-family policies in both areas of welfare and tax.
 
Charlie McCreevy made a change a few years back, so that those unemployed living at home (in the early 90s there were quite a few) could only move out and apply for rent allowance if they could get a letter from a doctor alleging abuse against their parents.

Hardly the most family friendly way of sparing a few quid!

Presumably the parents still have the right to turf them out when they are 16/18. How many, I wonder do so in order to gain rent allowance? No. Not family friendly at all!
 
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