Hi Folks
Just spent the previous evening with a mate of mine who is thinking (actually more accurately salivating!) over the prospects of buying a piece of the property action abroad.
Just a few observations to kick off this thread:
I'll put my cards on the table first. The one piece of bricks and mortar that I do own is in Greece , a 2 bed apartment in Athens which I bought under the spell of a young Greek lady when I lived and worked there in the late 90's! (96-99). It has worked out ok - its in a good location - practically paid for - 2 years on the loan left and the rental income pays for all , including the management fees - been lucky on tenant turnover - the same couple been there for last 5 years - good tenants. I probably could take serious capital appreciation if I sold up now , but I'll probably hang on to it - it not costing me anything - I like Athens , the big dirty overgrown smog ridden 6 1/2 million filled megalopolis that it is , one of those places that gets under your skin - and when the industry Im in here in Ireland is finally outsourced to the Far East I can always go back into the tourism and teaching english game there.
With that out of the way:
Im amazed at the amount of investing Irish People are doing right around the world . From penthouses in China to igloos in the Artic - a lot of them risking far more than myself and it would seem very very little knowledge of the countries and more particularly the cultures into which they are investing in apart from what it says in the glosssy brochures produced by the Selling Agents.
In Particular what I find telling is the widespread attitude that what has heppened in Ireland over the last decade or so is just bound to happen in nearly every other country in the world whose standard of living (or maybe more accurately cost of living !) has not reached the dizzy heights that ours has. Eastern Europe ,the Med , the Middle East , the Far East - all just waiting to have their version of the Celtic tiger and we , the Irish Landlord class (isn't it amazing how easily that can be said now , without invoking images of Davitt and Parnell famine and evictions etc etc) will be housing them all!.
It is as if the whole country has read Francis Fukuyama's The End of History and has assumed that everybody will now buy into the Anglo Saxon laisse faire liberal democracy path that apparently triumphed over all others the fall of the Soviet Union in the early 90s. And that all these countries will be lucky enough to have same miraclous alignment of economic good luck that we had since then.
I dont know about that - thats why Im fishing around for others opinions:
a few examples:
Poland:
Everybody seems to be getting in know in anticipation of a big takeoff. Well the poles have been waiting the bones of 20 years and they are voting with their feet. A President and Prime minister far more concerned with homosexuality and the death penalty and other imaginative policies, a brain drain that is making Irish Emigration over the last 50 years look like small potatoes - the brightest and best of their young are leaving at an alarming rate - and their birth rate is falling - I don't know but it sure is starting to look like in Ireland in the 50's not the pre-tiger 80's.
Hungary - once the bright star of post communist eastern europe - nows looks like is going to take over from Slovakia as the economic basket case of eastern europe - serious structural issues that will take a long time to resolve - how long do you intend investing for and will rental yield to the natives keep you covered in the meantime?
Dubai - Yeah the clean shiny heart of Middle Eastern Business - the switzerland of the levant - or wasnt that what they used to call Beirut? - A Petro absolutist monarchy in a great neighbourhood with lots of stable mature democracies as Neighbours - Saudi, Iran , Iraq - well maybe I could be wrong but I just dont see the word stability and certainty anywhere in the Future of that region at the mo.
I could go on and on - but I have to do some work now - just kicking around a few thoughts - would welcome any rebuttals and thoughts from others on the issue
Just spent the previous evening with a mate of mine who is thinking (actually more accurately salivating!) over the prospects of buying a piece of the property action abroad.
Just a few observations to kick off this thread:
I'll put my cards on the table first. The one piece of bricks and mortar that I do own is in Greece , a 2 bed apartment in Athens which I bought under the spell of a young Greek lady when I lived and worked there in the late 90's! (96-99). It has worked out ok - its in a good location - practically paid for - 2 years on the loan left and the rental income pays for all , including the management fees - been lucky on tenant turnover - the same couple been there for last 5 years - good tenants. I probably could take serious capital appreciation if I sold up now , but I'll probably hang on to it - it not costing me anything - I like Athens , the big dirty overgrown smog ridden 6 1/2 million filled megalopolis that it is , one of those places that gets under your skin - and when the industry Im in here in Ireland is finally outsourced to the Far East I can always go back into the tourism and teaching english game there.
With that out of the way:
Im amazed at the amount of investing Irish People are doing right around the world . From penthouses in China to igloos in the Artic - a lot of them risking far more than myself and it would seem very very little knowledge of the countries and more particularly the cultures into which they are investing in apart from what it says in the glosssy brochures produced by the Selling Agents.
In Particular what I find telling is the widespread attitude that what has heppened in Ireland over the last decade or so is just bound to happen in nearly every other country in the world whose standard of living (or maybe more accurately cost of living !) has not reached the dizzy heights that ours has. Eastern Europe ,the Med , the Middle East , the Far East - all just waiting to have their version of the Celtic tiger and we , the Irish Landlord class (isn't it amazing how easily that can be said now , without invoking images of Davitt and Parnell famine and evictions etc etc) will be housing them all!.
It is as if the whole country has read Francis Fukuyama's The End of History and has assumed that everybody will now buy into the Anglo Saxon laisse faire liberal democracy path that apparently triumphed over all others the fall of the Soviet Union in the early 90s. And that all these countries will be lucky enough to have same miraclous alignment of economic good luck that we had since then.
I dont know about that - thats why Im fishing around for others opinions:
a few examples:
Poland:
Everybody seems to be getting in know in anticipation of a big takeoff. Well the poles have been waiting the bones of 20 years and they are voting with their feet. A President and Prime minister far more concerned with homosexuality and the death penalty and other imaginative policies, a brain drain that is making Irish Emigration over the last 50 years look like small potatoes - the brightest and best of their young are leaving at an alarming rate - and their birth rate is falling - I don't know but it sure is starting to look like in Ireland in the 50's not the pre-tiger 80's.
Hungary - once the bright star of post communist eastern europe - nows looks like is going to take over from Slovakia as the economic basket case of eastern europe - serious structural issues that will take a long time to resolve - how long do you intend investing for and will rental yield to the natives keep you covered in the meantime?
Dubai - Yeah the clean shiny heart of Middle Eastern Business - the switzerland of the levant - or wasnt that what they used to call Beirut? - A Petro absolutist monarchy in a great neighbourhood with lots of stable mature democracies as Neighbours - Saudi, Iran , Iraq - well maybe I could be wrong but I just dont see the word stability and certainty anywhere in the Future of that region at the mo.
I could go on and on - but I have to do some work now - just kicking around a few thoughts - would welcome any rebuttals and thoughts from others on the issue
