Scumbags!!

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liteweight

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I went into town today and was standing outside Arnotts sheltering from the rain. An old lady with a walking stick was beside me. Three young lads walked by, one was holding a large paper cup. He was literally a foot away from a bin when he dropped the cup to the ground. The old lady shouted 'I think you dropped something'!! The lad turned and punched her in the side of the head!!

I was absolutely horrified and tried to grab hold of him but the old lady had collapsed against me and I had to hold her up. The reaction of the people stunned me. They seemed to turn, almost in unison, to look into the shop window. Nobody helped in fact they studiously ignored the situation.

She refused to call the gardai and I wanted to call an ambulance but she refused this too. I have never been so mortified, embarassed by, and for the citizens of my own city.:mad: I'm ashamed to say I'm a Dubliner today!:mad:
 
That is horrendous. But I have to say that I'm not really surprised to hear it. I don't feel safe on the streets of the city centre any more.
 
You were brave enough to stand up to them. There's a lot of that nastiness about, more's the pity.
 
If I could have gotten hold of the little 5hit....I'd have killed him or at least died trying.........I was that annoyed and I still haven't gotten over it.
 
mobileme said:
I don't feel safe on the streets of the city centre any more.
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For what it's worth I have lived almost 40 years in Dublin and have wandered the streets a lot and have never encountered any trouble in all that time. The incident above is obviously shocking and intolerable but to generalise from isolated incidents like that to some overarching theory that the streets are generally unsafe seems like a gross overreaction to me.
 
thought there was cctv in central dublin. why dont you contact the gendarme and see if they captured it
 
Was in Abbey Street today and overheard three young men talking as they walked past me. "I would have slit his throat like I did with that last fellow that I left for dead" said one. I thought these lads are speaking like this to shock anyone who overhears but when I watched they were completely oblivious to their surroundings and the people nearby.
 
> For what it's worth I have lived almost 40 years in Dublin and have
> wandered the streets a lot and have never encountered any trouble in
> all that time.

Has it occured to you that this may be because these thugs are less likely to attack a young male who looks like he can defend himself. Preferring as in the case above to attack an elderly lady.

To generalise from your own isolated experience that the streets are generally safe seems like a gross underreaction to me. Would it not be better to look at Dublin's Crime statistics? or to compare them with other cities?

According to the Garda Report for 2005 there were 259 Assaults Reported in Dublin the city centre Per 1000 population. i.e More than one report for every 4 people. Of these the number detected was 140 per 1000 population. Let's presume all the other reports were hoaxes, people have nothing better to do.

For Sexual Assaults it was 84.5/1000 Reported and 32.5/1000 Detected.

For Robbery it was 324.5/1000 Detected (almost 1 in 3) and 125.5 detected.

Your 40 years of apparent safety notwitstanding those aren't encouraging figures for the Capital City of a wealthy nation.

Or perhaps they are. Perhaps these figures do reflect safe streets. For comparison, Dallas TX, has roughly the same population as Dublin

It's figures based on the 2004 statistics for crimes REPORTED are
Assault 6.4/1000
Rape is 6.07/1000
Robbery is 0.479/1000

Perhaps Dallas isn't a good match. Perhaps the Dubs fancy themselves
as more like New Yorkers. The comparison there is even less flattering.

Assault 3.61/1000
Rape is 0.176/1000
Robbery is 3/1000

The comparison might not be like for like. US Crime Statistics are unlikely to use the same models as the Gardai. Distinctions like Reported and Detected would make Dublins figures compare even less favourtably. Definititions of Crimes might be different (Sexual Assault vs Rape).

But the figures are so vastly different it's hard to argue that Dublin is a Safe City by any objective measure.

If you prefer we can ignore these figures and go back to each person providing their own testimonial of life in Dublin.

I'll see your 40 years of safety and raise you

* One smashed windscreen.
* One smashed drivers window
* One Keyed drivers door
(all separate incidents)

Or we can go to crimes that I have first hand knowledge of
* One broken nose in broad daylight on Georges St.
* One Baseball bat to the back of the head at 5pm.
* One car jacking.
(all separate incidents with different victims)


liteweight:
Report the crime you witnessed. Don't be naive and think that it'll get you anywhere, but at least it'll be one more tick in the crimes reported column.
When crime figures start dropping because of apathy those drops will be seized upon by ministers as evidence of progress.
 
I've been wandering around O'Connell st direction for 7 of the the past 10yrs and I've never encountered any bother whatsoever. My normal walk home takes me up Liffey St, along Henry St and up Moore st (or sometimes through the ILAC), I've also lived on Abbey St in that period too.
So whilst I've possibly been lucky thusfar I don't think Dublin is too bad at all, not that the Indo or FG would allow people to get comfortable on the streets. Compare that to my experiences in Belfast, burgled multiple times, assaulted on the streets most years too - thats not even talking about my first couple of years in college which were pre-ceasefire.
In saying that, what the OP witnessed is shocking, there really are some sick people out there.
 
cuchulainn said:
thought there was cctv in central dublin. why dont you contact the gendarme and see if they captured it
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I don't think they'd do this for me to be honest. After all, it didn't happen to me, I witnessed it.

I will report the incident though Dalton, it never occurred to me to view it from your perspective.

Clubman, I think you've been very lucky to date. Last Sunday my daughter was in O'Connell St. and witnessed a woman attacked by two other women. An ambulance had to be called! When she came home telling me the city had become a kip, I disagreed and told her it was an isolated incident. Both daughters sat me down and informed me that they witness things constantly, particularly at night. I was amazed to find that the general concensus is to keep your head down and walk on!! I was of the same opinion as you but they gave me examples.

Today, I saw it first hand and I have to say, I'm worried about that woman tonight.
 
liteweight said:
I don't think they'd do this for me to be honest. After all, it didn't happen to me, I witnessed it.

I will report the incident though Dalton, it never occurred to me to view it from your perspective.

Clubman, I think you've been very lucky to date. Last Sunday my daughter was in O'Connell St. and witnessed a woman attacked by two other women. An ambulance had to be called! When she came home telling me the city had become a kip, I disagreed and told her it was an isolated incident. Both daughters sat me down and informed me that they witness things constantly, particularly at night. I was amazed to find that the general concensus is to keep your head down and walk on!! I was of the same opinion as you but they gave me examples.

Today, I saw it first hand and I have to say, I'm worried about that woman tonight.
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Its getting pretty hair raising to walk down the middle of Galway after midnight these days as well. I was escorting a friend of mine across town, after a nightclub, and it looked like there was a brawl on every street corner. Now I know things weren't entirely relaxed ten years ago, but theres an element of random thuggery creeping in that was never there before and which I don't like one bit. You've as much chance of being hassled if you have your head down minding your own business as if you're roaring drunk and swaggering like a sailor.
 
tententwenty said:
Its getting pretty hair raising to walk down the middle of Galway after midnight these days as well. I was escorting a friend of mine across town, after a nightclub, and it looked like there was a brawl on every street corner. Now I know things weren't entirely relaxed ten years ago, but theres an element of random thuggery creeping in that was never there before and which I don't like one bit. You've as much chance of being hassled if you have your head down minding your own business as if you're roaring drunk and swaggering like a sailor.
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I realise it's happening everywhere. Look at those 2 unfortunate children, critical in hospital when their mother's car was set alight. You're right, there is an element of random thuggery!! I think that's what's most worrying. The lady in town today was in her late 70's and carried a walking stick. It seems that no one and nothing is sacred any more.

Another worrying aspect is that although the lad acted independently, his friends weren't shocked, in fact, they giggled ( the little b@st@rds)!! Apparently there is no check on behaviour from their peers anymore. Did none of them have a Granny??:(
 
Absolutely shocking. I have three sons in their twenties. Two are back living at home. I can honestly say that I really only get to sleep when I hear the key turning in the door at weekends. Liteweight you were probably lucky that you didn't get stabbed. These thugs have no fear/conscience at all. They are one step above animal behaviour. Forget the old lady for a second. These thugs don't even know what a litter bin is for despite all the adverts to keep "Dublin tidy" etc
A suggestion on the Pat Kenny show yesterday from a listener was that like the penalty points in driving, these underage thugs should build up penalty points in jail sentences and when they reach the age of 18 they serve the lot of accumulated "jail points".
Lets hope that the judges jail the 30 or so drug dealers arrested over the past couple of days for a long long time and not let them off with "one more chance".
 
Grizzly said:
like the penalty points in driving, these underage thugs should build up penalty points in jail sentences and when they reach the age of 18 they serve the lot of accumulated "jail points".
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See thats the problem with society today. Bring back the grand arena thats what I say, let them duke it out in a struggle for life and death with arbitrary rules and weapons spectacular only for their randomness, for the pleasure of the audience, and Irish politicians expressly forbidden togas. Expressly. In liteweights case, for example, paper cup wielding tinkers could be made to do battle with siberian tigers. Everybody wins, IMHO.

Funny thing is I am only half joking. ;)
 
Every time I walk along Henry street/Mary street/Moore street I always feel a small bit scared/fear/intimidated by the number of young "skangers", or whatever you like to call them.

Generally wearing tracksuits, and often baseball caps, with short hair, these people (male and female) seem to me to have aggressive tendencies, easily tgriggered if you even look at them.

Dublin seems to have a higher than average proportion of these people.
 
franmac said:
"I would have slit his throat like I did with that last fellow that I left for dead" said one.
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He was actually talking about what he would have done to the bloke who got in his way after he gave a puck to an old lady who had the cheek to mouth off at him for dropping litter.

Makes you wonder about the sense of tackling these kinds of scumbags :eek:
 
Absolutely shocking. I have three sons in their twenties. Two are back living at home. I can honestly say that I really only get to sleep when I hear the key turning in the door
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I can really empathise with this! It's funny how the tables turn, mine ring ME now if I'm late........I've even been told that I should have had the decency to call!!:D

Seriously though, I won't forget the look on my daughter's face when I told her I tried to grab the guy. These three lads didn't look like scangers and didn't speak like scangers.:confused: It's really worrying in a society when you have absolutely no idea what the 'bad guys' look like anymore.
 
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one quick question, why was this not reported straight away?? Henry Street is covered by CCTV that is linked up to the Garda station on O'Connell street. These guys would have been picked up in minutes !!!

I was on Henry street yesterday too and there were Gardai everywhere, especially outside Jervis shopping centre.. there always around the area and could have been at the scene in a minute or less.. Did shop security not come to help either??

anyway.... Dublin has always been like this though and I for one dont feel safe walking through Henry street, Parnell Street, O'Connell street late at nite (8pm-) and im a young well built man (6'2"). These scum however dont care who you are. Gone are the days where you'd get mugged for your runners or jacket.. Now they just seem to punch you or smack you over the head with a bottle for just looking at them.

I was in NewYork and Paris recently and I felt so much safer in these cities compared to Dublin. I felt like there was a poilce officer on every corner in New York. We need a bigger presence on our streets at all times of the day.. Gardai seem to have just blended into the crowd with their new uniforms too.. In NewYork they stand out a mile !!!
 
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