Barra Roantree "Was the Budget for the children of the rich or the children of the poor"

Purple said:
Yes, but those are exceptions so under normal circumstances it is correct to say that they'd have to remain in residence for 6 years after inheriting it.
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You can sell provided you use the proceeds to buy another house as only or main residence:

"However, a sale or disposal does not result in the cessation of the exemption where:
 it happens after the death of the successor;
 the successor was aged 65 or older at the date of the inheritance of the dwelling house; or
 the full proceeds from a sale are used by the successor to purchase a replacement dwelling house, which then becomes the successor’s only or main residence. If less than the full proceeds are used to purchase the replacement dwelling house there is a claw back of the exemption in proportion to the amount of the proceeds not used."
 
T McGibney said:
Of course it is.

I know of someone who would be classed as vulnerable and who has lived his lifetime in one of the premium areas of Dublin 4, in the house that was previously the home of his late parents. Why should he have lost his home after his second parent died? He probably would have ended up homeless.
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Exactly the reason why it’s exempt.

However it could also be the golden handcuff.

Perhaps he was capable of a bit of independent living so rents an apartment close to home. Knowing he can always move home if need be. Parents can keep an eye on him and he can come for dinner a few times a week.

Then his parents die suddenly. His landlord has a niece moving back from Australia and so unless he has the cash to pay the tax man he can’t move back the house he grew up in.

Best to stay put.
 
T McGibney said:
Of course it is.

I know of someone who would be classed as vulnerable and who has lived his lifetime in one of the premium areas of Dublin 4, in the house that was previously the home of his late parents. Why should he have lost his home after his second parent died? He probably would have ended up homeless.
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So many ways to deal with this. Put in a reasonable exemption, say €1m. After this €400k applies. So he could solely inherit a €2m home with a €200k tax bill.

If feeling extra generous the state could hold the €200k as a charge against the property until his death so he doesn’t have to move out.

This is ignoring the fact this individual could easily have had siblings who won’t play ball. Would the state step in here to buy them out for him?

It’s not a reasonable expectation that the state should facilitate someone living in a multi million euro house tax free in all circumstances. There are plenty of folk just as vulnerable as your friend here who have no house at all to inherit. We have a social welfare system to provision for this.

Forgive me if I can’t cry tears for the vulnerable person being put forward to justify multi million tax breaks for the masses….as said before, hard cases = bad laws
 
Zion2022 said:
So many ways to deal with this. Put in a reasonable exemption, say €1m. After this €400k applies. So he could solely inherit a €2m home with a €200k tax bill.

If feeling extra generous the state could hold the €200k as a charge against the property until his death so he doesn’t have to move out.

This is ignoring the fact this individual could easily have had siblings who won’t play ball. Would the state step in here to buy them out for him?

It’s not a reasonable expectation that the state should facilitate someone living in a multi million euro house tax free in all circumstances. There are plenty of folk just as vulnerable as your friend here who have no house at all to inherit. We have a social welfare system to provision for this.

Forgive me if I can’t cry tears for the vulnerable person being put forward to justify multi million tax breaks for the masses….as said before, hard cases = bad laws
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1,000,000 - 400,000 = 600,000

600k * 33% =198k no?
 
Zion2022 said:
Forgive me if I can’t cry tears for the vulnerable person being put forward to justify multi million tax breaks for the masses….as said before, hard cases = bad laws
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The ultimate irony of this example is that if the option of his remaining in his home for the remainder of his life hadn't been a viable one, he'd have probably gone into long term residential care decades ago, at staggering cumulative cost to the State

Yes, hard cases make bad laws but equally hard laws make bad cases.
 
T McGibney said:
The ultimate irony of this example is that if the option of his remaining in his home for the remainder of his life hadn't been a viable one, he'd have probably gone into long term residential care decades ago, at staggering cumulative cost to the State

Yes, hard cases make bad laws but equally hard laws make bad cases.
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Just don’t accept that with some reasonable supports an individual with €1.8m cannot possibly house themselves. 99.99999% of people who have ever lived manage with far less.
bill_cash said:
The state forcibly extracting less of your money/delaying forcible extraction is not the state being generous
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Comes back to the arguments of the recently closed thread on inheritance tax generally as to whether it’s actually ‘your assets’ or someone you are related to’s assets…I’d have thought the answer was pretty clear but judging from the views in that particular post, some people are not for convincing - so I won’t try!

I tried to make the same case on income tax with Revenue before but they wouldn’t listen annoyingly.
 
Zion2022 said:
Just don’t accept that with some reasonable supports an individual with €1.8m cannot possibly house themselves. 99.99999% of people who have ever lived manage with far less.
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I never mentioned €1.8m, or indeed any figure.

And what makes you certain that even if a vulnerable person finds themselves with such a sum in liquid wealth, they can always manage it sufficiently competently to ensure that they can live independently?

Weren't there cases of homeless people dying on the streets of Dublin who had substantial balances in the bank but couldn't put rooves over their heads?
 
T McGibney said:
I never mentioned €1.8m, or indeed any figure.

And what makes you certain that even if a vulnerable person finds themselves with such a sum in liquid wealth, they can always manage it sufficiently competently to ensure that they can live independently?

Weren't there cases of homeless people dying on the streets of Dublin who had substantial balances in the bank but couldn't put rooves over their heads?
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A figure was mentioned because a core principle of my point is that the reliefs could be made so generous that nobody in the described scenario could be left with anything less than an extraordinary tax free sum…just it should not be unlimited.

On the second point. This is a failing in other areas and not relevant. The vast vast majority of vulnerable people won’t have the luxury of a large inheritance.

There cannot be a blanket view that people who are ‘vulnerable’ are entitled to unlimited taxpayer subsidy to maintain whatever living arrangement they are currently in.

If my mental/physical health were to decline from here, I would not expect the taxpayer to clear my mortgage at any cost.
 
Zion2022 said:
The vast vast majority of vulnerable people won’t have the luxury of a large inheritance.
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How sure are you of that?

The Will of a parent can be deemed invalid if it doesn't make adequate provision for the needs of a surviving child. It's not exactly unknown for a vulnerable adult child to inherit either an ownership interest in the family home or a life interest therein.
 
T McGibney said:
How sure are you of that?

The Will of a parent can be deemed invalid if it doesn't make adequate provision for the needs of a surviving child. It's not exactly unknown for a vulnerable adult child to inherit either an ownership interest in the family home or a life interest therein.
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Given the median inheritance from a parent is €100,000 per CSO - pretty sure.
 
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