Northern AG wants to forgive and forget

[Time]

What is Sinn Féin's view on all this?

I am sure they would be at least secretly delighted that Grizzly and co could walk away scot free from the horrible things they did in the name of the struggle.

 

[blueband]

grizzly has noting to walk away from!...he is not on trial...

 

[cremeegg]

Referring to Duke of Marmalade.

You are just trolling at this stage.

Bullbars, you are in the wrong there and owe DoM an apology.

While I profoundly disagree with him, I think that DoM's comments are an honest expression of his opinions.

In the first post I thought he was just trying to annoy people, but there is no reason not to accept his sense of shock at the armys involvement with a murder squad.

It is not my view, but many people in NI saw the army as defending them from sectarian horrors. And considered reports of their wrongdoing as republican propaganda.

This is predominately a 26 county website, and people in the 26 counties rarely hear views such as DoM's expressed. And equally, people of that view are rarely exposed to the opinions and experiences of rational people who disagree with them, all they ever hear is extremists shouting at them.

 

[Time]

grizzly has noting to walk away from!...he is not on trial...

He has plenty of skeletons in the closet.

 

[Purple]

grizzly has noting to walk away from!...he is not on trial...

That's two different points. I agree on the second one as it's a statement of fact.

 

[bullbars]

Bullbars, you are in the wrong there and owe DoM an apology.

Not a chance.

While I profoundly disagree with him, I think that DoM's comments are an honest expression of his opinions.

Are honest expressions of opinions exempt from criticism when they are patently wrong, closed minded and without any substantial basis? If so I owe those guys over at Westboro Baptist Church an apology letter from me as well I suppose.

In the first post I thought he was just trying to annoy people, but there is no reason not to accept his sense of shock at the armys involvement with a murder squad.

Sense of shock? “that was a shocker alright”…..seems very sincere alright.That response was more suitable for the final few minutes of the last Ireland V New Zealand game.

To have a British government authorised shoot to kill army unit operating in a clandestine manner without recourse warrants a bit more than “That was a shocker” in my opinion.

It is not my view, but many people in NI saw the army as defending them from sectarian horrors. And considered reports of their wrongdoing as republican propaganda.

It is not my view, but many people in NI saw the IRA army as defending them from sectarian Unionist government and Army / RUC horrors. And considered reports of their wrongdoing as republican Unionist propaganda.

See how that works? The big difference was the army/RUC/Prison officers and Unionists sectarian units had the government backing to act with impunity.

This is predominately a 26 county website, and people in the 26 counties rarely hear views such as DoM's expressed.

We heard it and worse for long enough whilst others were silenced. It would do them no harm to listen for a change. Judging by the comments and thought process DoM’s closed minded views could do remaining rarely heard.

And equally, people of that view are rarely exposed to the opinions and experiences of rational people who disagree with them, all they ever hear is extremists shouting at them.

“Extremists” being the operative word here. Extremists like the OP for example.

Duke of Marmalade could only see an “us and them” proposal. A proposal from a person who is obviously well qualified and involved in the process but never the less, couldn’t see past the fact that attorney general was born a Catholic. Therefore ‘obviously’ devoid of any free thought and automatically must be a Republican, whose intent in life was to get “terrorists” off the hook. Prior to posting, he even had to cement his bigoted views by ensuring the Attorney General was born a Roman Catholic. He continues then also inferring that the Good Friday Agreement only benefitted republican terrorists and was oppressive to the unionist community; only reluctantly admitting that it was to eventually lead to an evidently peaceful co-existence, as if some semblance of negotiation was so foreign and daunting to them that it was “a bitter pill to swallow”.

The NI AG is not forgiving and forgetting, he obviously believes that most of these crimes were in fact justified. That would be a fairly common belief in the RC community.

Here we have the extremist in full flow – the crimes committed were only committed by one side. The automatic preconception of the Attorney General, because if his creed, not trying to forgive and forget but attempting to free the murderers.

Duke of Marmalade then has the contemptuous audacity to declare this a common belief in the Roman Catholic Community.

Recall that 99% of RCs voted for the moral compromise inherent in the GFA, NCs were much less sure splitting 50/50. It was a terrible pill for them to swallow but if it brought peace worth the price, just.

What you are omitting here is the fact that it was a Unionist controlled government, Civil Service, Army, Police Force and Prison Service. The 50/50 statistic just highlights how inconceivable the thought of equal rights and power sharing was.

With no such blackmail now at play I am totally mystified that anyone in such a senior position would recommend a total moral surrender.

Yes it is unfortunate that people do try to fight back. It would have been far easier had they just accepted their status as unequal second/third class citizens and gotten on with the job of being peasants. But then again the Unionist Authorities wouldn’t have had so much fun gerrymandering and abusing a people based solely on their religious beliefs.

But Wiki gave me the answer.

No it didn’t. It just gave you a wafer thin ledge to spout your vitriolic nonsense from.

One side in the Northern conflict were always ambivalent on their approach to murder and terror.

Murder and terror when carried out by those in power and uniforms is still murder and terror.

Don't tell me it was equal on both sides. There was a sordid Loyalist backlash from the underclasses of the NC community but they never achieved any general acceptability and certainly never achieved the electoral success of their opposite numbers.

The difference being the Unionists had the Army / RUC / Prison service in place to do their dirty work. Of course having an army unit with a shoot to kill policy also saves on time and money for trials etc. Quick and easy solution wasn’t it?

When it got too dirty then all they had to do was “leak” the pertinent information to the UDA/LVF etc. or any other thug for hire and the job would be done.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Dearie me, bullbars, chill out. I don't think you owe me an apology. My style is a bit trollistic though my thought processes re the AG's RC background were indeed as I stated. In fact, having considerable familiarity with the bad old days in NI I was pleasantly surprised that such a "responsible" post can these days be entrusted to an RC. Your response to my OP was understandable but I would have thought that my reply to Betsy showed that I do not entirely disagree with your viewpoint albeit it does itself suffer from considerable "slant".

Perhaps I should not have aired some of my own pet slants on the NI thing and stuck to the almost sociological observation that there are interesting differences in attitudes between the communities.

In the same vein the recent display by Celtic supporters was also revealing. It wasn't merely the sanctification of Bobby Sands but what struck me was the almost philosophical tone of the message which was not at all sectarian or vicious. I concede that a similar Rangers display would likely be both vicious and sectarian.

 

[bullbars]

My style is a bit trollistic though my thought processes re the AG's RC background were indeed as I stated.

Ah the smug satisfaction of admitting to trolling but also being a bigot.

In fact, having considerable familiarity with the bad old days in NI I was pleasantly surprised that such a "responsible" post can these days be entrusted to an RC.

Couldn't resist another bit of snide trolling could you.

 

[delgirl]

In fact, having considerable familiarity with the bad old days in NI . . .

It might help support your opinions/experiences if you could expand on your 'considerable familiarity with the bad old days in NI'.

I'm not a supporter of Sinn Fein, but on watching the "Sinn Fein Who Are They?" documentary on TV3, Martin McGuinness made a very vaild point that those who were not there, although they may have and are of course entitled to their opinions, will never understand. Really, for anyone who didn’t live and breathe it, they can never understand what it was like.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

That's all folks.

Brendan