New Revelations of War Crimes at Abu Ghraib - Waterboarding was the least of them

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onq

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http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26690
Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has been [broken link removed] for acts of torture against US citizens authorized while he was in office.

The 7th Circuit made the ruling in the case of two American contractors who were tortured by the US military in Iraq after uncovering a smuggling ring within an Iraqi security company. The company was under contract to the Department of Defense. The company was assisting Iraqi insurgent groups in the “mass acquisition” of American weapons. The ruling comes as Rumsfeld begins his book tour with a visit to Boston on [broken link removed], and as new, uncensored photos of Abu Ghraib spark fresh outrage across Internet. Awareness is growing that Bush-era crimes went far beyond mere waterboarding.

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I've studied the American position intensely since 2001.
The machinations of the Bushes to gain and hold power.
The perversity and egregious crimes of Henry Kissinger.

I pity my friends in America, and the many, many fine Americans that I know.
That includes people of the Jewish faith whom I know, who are all intelligent, caring individuals.
I wish them all the best, but under their perverse, torturing war mongering government, I fear they are about to experience the worst.
 
Why not balance the argument by pointing out all the good things the US is responsible for? Show me a Country that has a perfect record when it comes to Human Rights.
 
@ Cashier,

Thanks for that wiki link.

The moral torpor of America is underlined by the fact that despite what they knew and when they knew it, Rummy is only now hung out to dry over the deaths of two Americans - the rest of the world are sub-human!

What sickens me most is the supine attitude of the last Government over the illegal kidnappings (extraordinary renditions) through Shannon, and the current shilly-shallying over the recognition of the State of Palestine.
 
@ Sunny.

That is such a bankrupt moral position that its unbelievable you raised it.
This isn't about Karma as applied to a nation-state, this is about the murder and torture of innocents!!!

People who argue at that level who wish to rebut you, might say at least other countries keep to themselves.
But America's rank hypocrisy is such that they claim a social betterment programme when they unseat dictators who do as they do!

"At least we got rid of a dictator who tortured and murdered his own people!" the Americans cry in self-justification, as the unseat their former "allies".
What's the difference to the locals, except on top of torture they see sexual degradation and rape heaped on women, children and men alike by the perverse Americans?

No difference.
 
I am not putting up any argument but I am not condemning an entire Nation apart from the nice ones you personally know because of the actions of a few.
 
Chris, that is untrue and unfair.

I do not condemn all Americans for the actions of the few.
I am exhorting the vast majority to see what's been done in their name and to make those criminal few accountable.

America is in the hands of a minority of people whose driving purpose is to ferment war but any means.
The Americans I know are not oblivious to this but believe they are powerless to do anything about it.
They already know America is torturing thousands and killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims.

This war on terrorism is a clueless as their war on drugs and for the same reasons.
There would be no terrorists if America stopped training them and giving them guns!

We see from this report that the Americans themselves are arming the terrorists!!!
I have said this all along and here are independent accounts via a court judgement.

They are torturing and murdering their own Bureau operatives in order to do perpetuate this.
This is so wrongheaded on so many levels that it defies belief and yet people can't take action.
 
onq said:
Chris, that is untrue and unfair.

I do not condemn all Americans for the actions of the few.
I am exhorting the vast majority to see what's been done in their name and to make those criminal few accountable.

America is in the hands of a minority of people whose driving purpose is to ferment war but any means.
The Americans I know are not oblivious to this but believe they are powerless to do anything about it.
They already know America is torturing thousands and killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims.

This war on terrorism is a clueless as their war on drugs and for the same reasons.
There would be no terrorists if America stopped training them and giving them guns!

We see from this report that the Americans themselves are arming the terrorists!!!
I have said this all along and here are independent accounts via a court judgement.

They are torturing and murdering their own Bureau operatives in order to do perpetuate this.
This is so wrongheaded on so many levels that it defies belief and yet people can't take action.
Click to expand...
(ONQ, that wasn't Chris you replied to)

The Bush government in general and Donald Rumsfeld in particular were guilty of telling lies, twisting the anger of the American people after the 9/11 attacks to their own aggressive ends and plunging America into an unjustified war that has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people. They have weakened America economically and politically and helped to make the world a more dangerous place.

But they are not America.

If and when any of them face justice they will do so in America. That’s something the Americans are good at; making their great and good face justice. I can’t think of any other world power, major of minor, that is better at that than them. OK, maybe good at it is stretching things; how about less bad at it?

The constantly used term “American lives” is deeply disturbing. It gives currency to the notion that an American life is worth more than any other life. That’s a really dangerous concept and unfortunately it is used by all sides in the national dialogue within the USA.

Where we disagree it on the notion that this is somehow worse than how other countries have behaved in the past or behave now. Since the Second World War European powers have been responsible for the massacre of hundreds of thousands of civilians. I don’t mean indirectly I mean European soldiers murdering unarmed non-combatant civilian men, women and children. In that group you can include the Dutch in Indonesia in the late 40’s, the British in the Middle East in the 50’s, the French in North Africa in the 50’s, the French, British and Belgians in sub-Saharan Africa in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. I’m sure the list can be added to but I don’t know my history well enough to do so but if you extend to list out to client states that were funded and directed by European powers then the death toll goes up into the millions. It’s deeply ironic that the country that houses the international court of justice has never apologised for the massacres it carried out while trying to hold onto its last vestiges of empire.
What America did under Bush is not exceptional in the least. Look at what America did while fighting the cold war by proxy in Africa, South and Central America and South east Asia. Look at what the Soviet Union did in the same places at the same time. Then add China to the list.

Your comment “There would be no terrorists if America stopped training them and giving them guns!” is exceptionally naive. Terrorism is the result of unequal military force and ideology that places victory above the lives or human rights of any person on any side. The world is a dangerous and nasty place. The clientism that we see is only the tip of the iceberg; secondary and tertiary clientism, the knock on consequence of empowering one side or another at one time or another is where the real depravity happens. The cycle has gone on for millennia. America didn’t start it and couldn’t stop it if it tried and when America, at some stage in the future, is gone the cycle will continue with barely a hiccup. Or course that doesn't make it right but it's nothing special.

We in this country live in a bubble of order and civility that is the exception. That bubble is maintained by the violence of others and a deeply unjust distribution of wealth. Unless we are willing to be much poorer then we’d better hope it stays that way. For those that find the current way of things unpalatable then you should rejoice every time a job moved from Ireland to a poor country as it’s just one more tiny step in making the world a more just place for all of us.

If you think the whole world can have what we have then you are kidding yourself.
 
You can't hold yourself up as some form of "world policeman" without at least attempting to follow some form of rule of law
 
One of the most disturbing things about this episode is that if American citizens hadn't been abused, then nothing would have been done about it. It is only because American citizens were harmed that there is an outcry.
 
DB74 said:
One of the most disturbing things about this episode is that if American citizens hadn't been abused, then nothing would have been done about it. It is only because American citizens were harmed that there is an outcry.
Click to expand...

Thats not true. There was outrage in America when the crimes committed by their armed forces came to light and people involved faced charges. The British army recently revealed a similar crime. Why aren't people writing posts criticising them. As Purple says, European countries have facilitated genocide all over the world at various times. I didn't see people writing about them.
America is guilty of many things and their policies with regard to the middle east have proved to be complete failures but let's not forget why the US is really detested by lunatic terrorists and rogue States like Iran in the region. It is because they are stopping Israel being wiped off the map.
 
DB74 said:
You can't hold yourself up as some form of "world policeman" without at least attempting to follow some form of rule of law
Click to expand...

The don't hold themselves up as a world policeman. They just "protect" their interests like everyone else.
 
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