Is union bashing a bloodsport in Ireland?

horusd

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I don't have a very firm view, but reports on unions in the media are almost always quite negative. I get the impression that unions are often despised in Ireland; ranked somewhere between estate agents and robbing bankers. They always seem to get an inordinate amount of stick, but is this deserved or just union bashing by a "right-wing" media?

I was a member of a union for a while. I didn't personally think they did much, and the fee was fairly high. But I accept that maybe it was better to be in a union than not. A bit like having insurance. Views anyone?
 
Sir Anthony O'Reilly as he likes to be called has far too much power in Ireland and his papers reflect it

Unions do great work but that's where you never hear about them.
Minimum rest periods are abused in hotels, realy I'd say the hotel industry is one of the worst areas in Ireland for treating staff badly.

It's easy to say we have legislation in Ireland so stand up for yourself but not everyone can deal with facing their supervisors, particularly young workers who are easy targets for bullying and might lack confidence.
And sure some casual jobs don't fire you, they just cut your hours and give them to someone else and wait for you to leave. Technically they didn't fire you so you have no case though the untrained new hire is getting your hours.

So unions do good work, I was a member of SIPTU for a year and found them very good and active.

But when I hear of unions in the media talking about social housing and government finance policy and mortgage tax reliefs, well realy they should get back to what they are supposed to do and work hard on the ground level.
 
Sir Anthony O'Reilly as he likes to be called has far too much power in Ireland and his papers reflect it

Unions do great work but that's where you never hear about them.
Minimum rest periods are abused in hotels, realy I'd say the hotel industry is one of the worst areas in Ireland for treating staff badly.

It's easy to say we have legislation in Ireland so stand up for yourself but not everyone can deal with facing their supervisors, particularly young workers who are easy targets for bullying and might lack confidence.
And sure some casual jobs don't fire you, they just cut your hours and give them to someone else and wait for you to leave. Technically they didn't fire you so you have no case though the untrained new hire is getting your hours.

So unions do good work, I was a member of SIPTU for a year and found them very good and active.

But when I hear of unions in the media talking about social housing and government finance policy and mortgage tax reliefs, well realy they should get back to what they are supposed to do and work hard on the ground level.

I agree completely.
 
I honestly don't have much time for unions after spending two of the most frustrating years working in a financial institution that was run by union reps. However, I was reading today about the trade union joining up with their counterparts on Australia to make it easier for electricians etc to emigrate and it is a reminder that trade unions do have a role to play. I thought it was a great idea. The problem is that many trade unionists are stuck in the past.
 
Unions - the best things ever & soon to come to every employer close to you via the upcoming promised mandatory Union recognition legislation :D
 
Unions - the best things ever & soon to come to every employer close to you via the upcoming promised mandatory Union recognition legislation :D

Yeah, the Government are in a real hurry to bring in that legislation.
 
Even if the employees don't want them?

Not at all , we live in a democracy - if employees don't wish to join A Union then that is their democratic right.

Equally if employees do wish to join then that is their democratic right , which of course is currently their democratic right under the constitution - however under the promised legislation employers will have to recognise the collective bargaining rights of such Unions - a huge step forward for industrial relations in Ireland & a welcome conformity with the rest of the EC.
 
Yeah, the Government are in a real hurry to bring in that legislation.

Both parties in Government have promised to bring in the required legislation to comply with European Court judgements& combined with ICTU's complaint to the International Labour Organisation that Ireland is in breach of conventions ( such conventions being binding ) then the pressure is unrelenting & as such I am confident that mandatory Trade Union legislation is just around the corner.
 
Both parties in Government have promised to bring in the required legislation to comply with European Court judgements& combined with ICTU's complaint to the International Labour Organisation that Ireland is in breach of conventions ( such conventions being binding ) then the pressure is unrelenting & as such I am confident that mandatory Trade Union legislation is just around the corner.

Its not even on the legislative radar for the next Dail term so don't get too excited.
 
Its not even on the legislative radar for the next Dail term so don't get too excited.

Excited moi ? - never , patience is the key.

ICTU hope that their complaint will be heard in the coming months - apparently it's simply a matter of pushing an open door.

Hopefully , however , the Government will play nice with the Unions prior to this hearing & the necessity of actively pursuing this complaint will not be required - after all we don't expect our Government to ignore European Court judgements - do we ?
 
Not at all , we live in a democracy - if employees don't wish to join A Union then that is their democratic right.

Equally if employees do wish to join then that is their democratic right , which of course is currently their democratic right under the constitution - however under the promised legislation employers will have to recognise the collective bargaining rights of such Unions - a huge step forward for industrial relations in Ireland & a welcome conformity with the rest of the EC.


I've no problem with unions negotiating for members with employers, but I don't want them in national negotiations that affect everyone. Cozy relationships between unions and gov't were a disaster. They don't have a vocie to speak for all workers, which I think they believe they have.
 
I've no problem with unions negotiating for members with employers, but I don't want them in national negotiations that affect everyone. Cozy relationships between unions and gov't were a disaster. They don't have a vocie to speak for all workers, which I think they believe they have.

I agree with you - the question of legislation forcing employers to recognise the collective bargaining rights of Unions is long overdue - as long as employees chose to be represented by such Unions.

Successive Governments chose to adopt the social partnership system since 1987 which proved hugely beneficial to the country as a whole until 2007'ish( moderate pay rises allied to tax cuts in exchange for Industrial stability - such wage increases were generally paid economy wide whether employees were Unionised or not ) - surely the depth of our current recession was caused more by Bankers & Developers than any other factors including any perceived cozy relationship between Government & Unions.
 
I agree with you - the question of legislation forcing employers to recognise the collective bargaining rights of Unions is long overdue - as long as employees chose to be represented by such Unions.

Successive Governments chose to adopt the social partnership system since 1987 which proved hugely beneficial to the country as a whole until 2007'ish( moderate pay rises allied to tax cuts in exchange for Industrial stability - such wage increases were generally paid economy wide whether employees were Unionised or not ) - surely the depth of our current recession was caused more by Bankers & Developers than any other factors including any perceived cozy relationship between Government & Unions.

Anyone who wants to be in a union should be allowed to join. And German unions who sit on company boards have generally been successful partners with employers. We still seem to have a" them and us" mentality when it comes to unions and employers.

Very high wages for the "bearded ones" and lucrative appointments to state boards like the notorious FAS have led to a perception of a cozy cartel between gov't and unions. The ridiculous claims and benefits of cosseted workers in the ESB/bord Gais, Eircom and the transport unions certainly have led to widespread public anger and a demand that these cartels should be broken up. In a time of national emergency and rising costs for struggling households wage rises for ESB or bord Gais workers are nothing short of obscene. It is time for the gov't to tackle this nettle and break-up these companies so that none of them have a strangle-hold on the entire country.
 
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I can look at it from 2 perspectives, firstly from the point of view of someone who was once a member of 2 "white collar" unions in 2 different countries, and secondly, as someone who sits down on the opposite side of the table from unions on a regular basis.

In terms of being a member, I was never impressed with the local union reps. Some were too firmly in the pocket of the employers (especially in the UK) to rock the boat, others were just gobdaws. There were some good deals done in terms of payrises and bonuses, but there was an element of "short-termism" in the deals, money up front for long term benifits being eroded for example, and the impact the deals had on the long term cost base of my employers only meant that cost cutting and reducancies were inevitable at some stage in the future.

In terms of sitting opposite union reps, there are 2 kinds. There are practical people, often who've worked in business in the past who are always open to getting a deal done and accept that we have a business to run. Often, you'll have the formal "negotiations" drag on with the real deal being hammered out over a cup of coffee across the road. The 2nd kind are the worst, the kind who bring idealogical baggage to the table, who are convinced we are out to screw "the worker" (whatever that is) and couldn't care less what the deal means in real terms as long as they can be seen to have got one over the management.

In fairness, a good sensible union rep can be a benifit to a business in terms of managing staff expectations. I've seen them tell people not to take a case for eg, bullying or harassment or over a disciplinary matter because they weren't going to win because either nothing happened or the action was warrented and that they should "cop themselves on". I've also seen bad reps lead people into actions that were only going to end in tears for the staff member concerned
 
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